On 'Death' and MMS: Jim Humble Responds to Nash Attack

From his location in Africa, Jim Humble sent me, in encrypted form, his own assessment of Mr. Nash’s accusations surrounding the death of his wife Sylvie. I’ll simply publish it as received, without further comment. ~AA

October 16, 2009 — 5:42:12 AM

Subject: Response to Doug Nash

As I have already said, the loss of one’s wife is probably the greatest loss that one will ever experience and thousands of people have also mourned his loss, and so do I. I shall never wish him anything but the best of wishes for the loss he has experienced.

Having said that, there is the other side of the story that no one seems to want to face, so let me state it. After all I am probably the one person in the world who should state it. Immediately after his wife’s death Mr. Nash started on his attack of MMS. Without knowing anything about MMS, or bothering to learn anything about MMS, Mr. Nash embarked on a program to destroy a chemical that is probably at this time the most important chemical that mankind has. Out of the estimated 2 million people who have already used MMS there are at least 100 thousand lives saved and more hundreds of thousands of people have overcome their suffering and returned to living their lives back in a normal fashion.

Then if Mr. Nash had of checked just a little bit of the chemistry, because the data is readily available, he would have found that MMS is a natural chemical manufactured by the human immune system to help prevent diseases and to keep the body healthy. He didn’t check at the time and he is not checking now. All he wants is his revenge by destroying the public’s faith in this chemical and to create fear in the public’s minds. The fact is, he is taking his revenge out not on just the public, but on humanity in general. Any person in his situation must accept a certain responsibility to mankind. His statements will destroy many people’s chance to again live a normal life. In a situation of this importance most normal people are up to taking the kind of responsibility that would demand that they review the items in question and absolutely know their ground. I’ve seen it many times. Normal people just step up and do what is necessary. Here is a man, Mr. Nash, stepping up and doing what is totally unnecessary. Every time Mr. Nash sends one of his heart breaking messages he hurts hundreds if not thousands of people who will probably never use MMS because of his message.

I am 77 years old and I have studied the human psyche for over 50 years. I traveled the world and spent several hundred thousand hard earned dollars to take courses, therapy, buy books, and study with people from around the globe. My studies tell me that when a person takes such a huge disregard for his responsibility to mankind there is a reason. He is reacting like an extremely guilty man. In my opinion he is lying about something that he feels he must keep secret at all costs. Now I know that there is going to be a lot of people out there saying how terrible and unfeeling I am to say anything like this when he has experience such a terrible loss, but don’t you see I would be shirking my responsibility if I did not tell the public what I believe.

Thirteen years ago, I stood in the jungle of Guyana and accepted the responsibility to take the cure that I had found to mankind. I had also found gold in the jungle, and I could have continued being a prospector. But I accepted my responsibility and I risked my life at that time to prove my discovery. I would be shirking my responsibility, now, to not at least say what I believe.

From Mr. Nash’s actions and reactions I believe that he is lying about something in the situation that happened. I don’t know what, but I know that most people have a much greater sense of responsibility to mankind than Mr. Nash has demonstrated. In fact he as demonstrated a total lack of any kind of that responsibility and is showing an attack. In observing men in situations throughout the world where they have had losses or special situations have been thrust on them, most rise to the occasion. Only a few throw their chance to prove their worth to the wind. I believe that he is directing the attention of the public and police way from himself by ranting about MMS. It is my suggestion that Mr. Nash be completely investigated. If I had the money I would pay for it to be done, but my money is like I have always said, for the people here in Africa. If you think that is unfeeling, I am sorry. It is my job to protect MMS. There were people who witnessed his wife die, but how many people witnessed the rest of the day? We only know that she was in a comma. We need to know what happened the rest of that day, before people arrived. I am sorry, but Mr. Nash is trying too hard to blame it all on MMS. He is screaming MMS so loudly no one is looking at him. Well I can’t do anything from here in Africa. But I suggest that the police take a good look at Mr. Nash. Any person even slightly responsible would ask for an investigation. They wouldn’t rave about something they knew nothing about. Do you see? He isn’t even waiting for the autopsy reports, he is trying to do as much damage as he can before the report comes out.

I would like to point out that 2 drops that he said his wife had couldn’t possibly have caused what he claims. I have given more than two drops to a very tiny baby puppy without them even vomiting. In Africa and Mexico I have give two drops to hundreds of babies with malaria and dozens of other diseases. I have seen more people take MMS than anyone else in the world certainly more than 5000 people. Not even one person per thousand has done more than vomit 30 seconds and they didn’t last a full minute of vomiting. Now that I think about it, Mr. Nash is showing an amazing method of attack. It is like he already had the plan of attack in mind. Either he has an amazing knowledge of the Internet and the various blogs or he has some help finding the places to send his heart breaking but hate messages. I can state that I know that two drops couldn’t cause that reaction that he has told us. MMS is not a catalyst. It is an oxidizer. If the autopsy says different then we know that she had much more than 2 drops. A man in Los Angeles took 1/2 of a bottle of MMS that’s 2.75 ounces or 1403 drops. He went to the hospital, but he didn’t die. Do you see, 1403 drops didn’t kill this man and 2 drops killed Nash’s wife? Two drops cannot last in the human body longer than 1.5 hours. So if they find MMS in her body, we know something happened other than what he said. You can kill anyone by forcing too much of anything down their throat, too much water, or salt, or sugar, or anything else.

So please, any of you, don’t follow Nash’s example. Take a few minutes to at least check MMS out. At this point you too have a certain responsibility to your family, and at least to your friends and neighbors. If MMS really works, and you are willing to check that out, the fact is you will save someone’s life within the next 5 years simply because you know what it does. That is the exact statistics of it. If you don’t know that MMS works, then whoever it is will just die like they normally would, and you will probably never realize it. Statistics says that everyone in the US comes in contact at least once every 5 years with someone that is about to die. Of course, most people don’t recognize it when it happens, but it does happen. And like it or not, as a member of the human race, you also have a certain responsibility to that person that you will come in contact with in the future. Please accept that responsibility now. You will feel better knowing that you can save a life when the time comes. – Jim Humble

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133 Thoughts to “On 'Death' and MMS: Jim Humble Responds to Nash Attack”

  1. Lightbulb

    Hi – I continue to take MMS sporadically 6-8 drops, but still am waiting for more lab tests to see what happened after taking it for 3 months. It has not made me sick since the time I tried upping the dose by 3 drops in one day instead of 3 days. The FDA might be honest in their concern, however I suspect they haven’t done all their homework. Does the FDA approve brownies baked with pot, people eat those all the time? Drinking too much water can be toxic to our system by washing out eloctrolytes! Toxic is as toxic does! ANYTHING in the wrong combination or dose can be toxic! So what is the point of the naysayers. If there were a lot of deaths from MMS, we’d be hearing more of it! One death we’ve heard of, and it has not been proven. What else was she on? Pharma drugs cause more deaths than anything else! I know, the docs nearly killed me with their pers!

  2. Thom

    I know this is a bit of an older discussion, but since this webpage was put out after the last post and just incase some lost soul accidently stumbles across this page. This is what the FDA says about MMS.

    Here are a couple tidbits from the warning incase you don’t feel like clicking the link.

    FDA warned consumers not to consume or use Miracle Mineral Solution, an oral liquid solution also known as “Miracle Mineral Supplement” or “MMS.” The product, when used as directed, produces an industrial bleach that can cause serious harm to health.

    Consumers who have MMS should stop using it immediately and throw it away. The FDA advises consumers who have experienced any negative side effects from MMS to consult a health care professional as soon as possible.

    Now I know this is coming from the government and I’m sure I’m going to get many of you are going to say that you can’t trust the government, but the FDA is staffed by a lot of good highly trained scientists that really understand these issues. These are the same people responsible for the E coli spinach and tomatoes recalls. If you would trust them to test the safety of your fruits and vegetables then why not about dangerous chemicals? If you’re going to stick with the evils of the government then you should stand by your convictions and eat the tainted food that the FDA tries to recall as well. And before you dismiss the data in favor of the big pharma conspiracy know this. The US lost more in yearly GNP in recent E coli and Salmonella recalls then it makes in prescription sales by any stretch of the imagination. So why would they lie about this to save money and not that?

    1. Thom,

      I believe that your question is sincerely asked, and it represents the thinking of many Americans. However, the FDA’s information, their claims, and their targeting of MMS is DESIGNED to create an aversion by the public, as the reports given by MMS users around the world have only SUPPORTED what Jim Humble observed and experienced himself in Central America, Africa, and now in the United States and around the world.

      I realize that it is unconscionable to think that the FDA would put false or misleading information out, but please understand that chlorine dioxide is a KNOWN and APPROVED chemical that has been used for water treatment and disinfecting for almost 100 years. What we think is impossible, is actually happening, both on the side of the FDA’s dishonesty, and MMS (chlorine dioxide used internally derived from VERY few drops) efficacy. We’ve recently uncovered a controlled study that confirms its safety, commissioned in 1982 by the National Institutes of Health.

      The question is would the FDA officials KNOWINGLY lie. I can’t answer that question. But I KNOW that the statements that they’ve said about MMS aren’t true. This is not as an “advocate” of MMS, but simply as an intelligent person who has done a modicum of research. It’s not hard to figure out. It’s not hard to test and see if the results can be matched. They DON’T WANT that kind of comparison, because it would be so EASY to see just how BENEFICIAL MMS is.

      They are counting on millions of people simply accepting their position on face value, not knowing that there are two faces, and the public is not seeing the truthful one.

      Best wishes,


  3. lompy

    regarding CNN and other media….

    Orwell Rolls In His Grave

    ” Goebbels said that what you want in a media system – he meant the Nazi media system – is to present the ostensible diversity that conceals an actual uniformity. Director Robert Kane Pappas’ ORWELL ROLLS IN HIS GRAVE is the consummate critical examination of the Fourth Estate, once the bastion of American democracy. Asking whether America has entered an Orwellian world of doublespeak where outright lies can pass for the truth, Pappas explores what the media doesn’t like to talk about: itself. Meticulously tracing the process by which media has distorted and often dismissed actual news events, Pappas presents a riveting and eloquent mix of media professionals and leading intellectual voices on the media… ”

    This is a very compelling documentary.. the people who watch this will likely view the ” news ” from a different perspective than they had previously.

    perspective is good 🙂

    People who are interested can view the documentary at the following address.

    best regards to all.

  4. lompy

    heya gilgamesh

    My gut says that CNN is shilling for Codex Alimentarius

    I know people who watch CNN and they are under the impression that natural health products can be dangerous…and therefore we need a powerful over-seeing body to regulate and enforce ” safety
    standards ” for food and natural health products.

    There is quite a lot of info on Codex available with a simple search.

    Germany is already under Codex… try and buy non-synthetic vitamins there.

    by the way.. the Cartoon network now has better viewership numbers than CNN… which is also at the very bottom of the television news heap.

    @ lightbulb

    Great to here your story, i wish you the best luck with your MMS trial and your health.

  5. Canadian Farmgirl

    I did not hear about the CNN story, so I just found a story about it:

    Personally, we do take a multivitamin daily – one that is derived from whole foods, vs. a synthetic type. We also eat alot of healthy food, alot of it from our own gardens, and I buy meat from a friend who raises her chicken and beef in a drug-free, healthy environment. Although I do not buy strictly organic, I do prefer organic dairy products, because they basically contain only milk (vs. carageenan gums, and milk “products” – how can table cream that has a fridge life of 6 weeks be good for you?)

    We try to eat as diverse a diet as possible – lots of whole grains, many different fresh fruits and vegetables, and eat as little processed food as possible. In Ontario, we are fortunate to have access to alot of this, especially in summer 😉

    My husband does not take the multivitamin I buy, (doesn’t think he needs it) but my daughter and I do – touch wood, we are blessed with good health!

  6. Canadian Farmgirl

    Wow, what a courageous struggle – I am so happy to read of your physical and mental and spiritual recovery! Way to go and keep up the great work. Please keep us posted on continued improvements here!


    1. Gilgamesh

      Hi Canadian Farmgirl.
      Jim Humble say, we should take multivitamins when we use MMS. But it was on CNN and on all the news, that multivitamin cause cancer, and only old people, and young children and pregnant woman should use multivitamins. This was a few weeks ago, but I m still thinking about this, how can it be good for old people, young children, and pregnant woman, if it causes cancer? Maybe you saw the same news, if you get CNN in British Columbia. My opinion on this, is that maybe people will have to get prescription from a doctor to use vitamins.I would like to know what is your opinion on this?

  7. Lightbulb

    I’ve read from the beginning of these posts. Palpy has info I totally do not understand. After taking it for two weeks, up to 13 drops 2x day, my liver counts were thus: tested Apr 20, 2010 & then Jun 21, my counts dropped AST 87 to 77 [normal 15-45], ALT 128 – 88 [normal 10-65]. But my GGT 81 to 111, so I don’t know. I can’t get another test for a few months but will continue with the rest of the bottle. For $20, I figure it’s worth a try.

    Please let me tell my story. In 2007, the Hep C specialist in Nelson BC scared me into believing I would get liver cancer because my counts were so high, and my genotype very bad, (sorry can’t remember). He talked me into the Interferon Ribavarin program. It did nothing but make me sick for 13 weeks. Listed side-effects: nausea, irritability, suicidal ideation, hair loss, etc etc… I got them all & had to take lots of sick time from work. And worst of all, I have not been able to read a book cover to cover, after being an avid reader sincde grade 4. I’m 60 on Saturday by the way, going on 14. Anyway, after I healed myself from that ordeal… I went to my 5th treatment centre for alcoholism cuz i wanted to drink over it all, after 13 years of abstinence. Then a doctor I saw at the beginning of Nov 2008, would not help me wean off Celexa, an antidepressant I’d been on since 2005. I felt i did not need it. He thought Effexor might be better, as it “helped relieve anxiety in social situations”.. & I am not a social butterfly. Within a few days, I noticed if I did not take it, I would get these wierd electric shock feelings through my body. After three weeks, I woke up crying one morning and could not stop for 7 months. This was one of the most stupid and humiliating ordeals of my life. I finally stopped Effexor by switching to Prozac, with less side effects. Guess what… side effects of Effexor were also anxiety, suicidal ideation, increased depression… I finally got it together to look up, after blindly trusting doctors & clinicians who tried to tell me to stay on anti-depressants. I literally went into dementia, and then after cold-turkeying in May 2009, it took months for me to heal myself… I nearly gave up, but I was finally feeling better by October, but still am on disability pension, until I heal nerve damage to my right hand after a fall down 15 stairs to a basement floor. My broken scapula has healed quite well, because of my chiropractor, Dr. C McLean the absolute best… uses an instrument, not manual manipulation. I am lucky it was not worse.

    So my point is that doctor medicine nearly killed me twice. I am very serious here. I know both sides of the drug world, as I have been an addict in the past as well, and have tried many many different kinds of street drugs, been clean about 10 years. But I still took occasional pharma’s, like codiene & gravol. Been (mostly) clean from pharma’s since June 18. NEVER have I had such a bad reaction or side effects as I did from those two drugs.

    I truly hope Palpable will read this. The ONLY time I got sick or nauseous was when I tried going from 2 to 5 drops in one day. I threw up my supper. I’ve previously thrown up my supper from smoking a cigarette (not on MMS then)…

    I don’t get sick a lot. I can only attest that to taking a lot of supplements even when it was ‘beer for breakfast days’. Particularly bee pollen, (since 1980). Also other whole foods like hemp seeds. those two foods saved my life when withdrawing from those drugs, I could not eat properly.

    Jim Humble quite clearly states to get your nutrition when on MMS (& any other time), particularly antioxidants. I’ve chosen Tahitian Noni Int. brand of Noni, as it worked for me before, as one of the high-end superjuices, which I’m sure will also be debunked.

    So for $1000’s of dollars I can buy doctor drugs that make me sick. But the FDA & big Pharma WOULD NOT LIKE ME TO TRY SOMETHING THAT MIGHT POTENTIALLY HELP ME, THAT ONLY COSTS PENNIES. We all know there is no money from people who do not need drugs. I take GABA & Melatonin to sleep now, not pharmas.

    Vit C, by the way, will neutralize the MMS solution, if you take too much. Why does Jim Humble give phone numbers & websites to check on his claims?

    Anyway, I am up to 16 drops tonight, I took 6 at noon, and 15 this morning. I will be truthful & say I have not found any cases on the web of being completely cured of Hep C, only that people do feel better. I have not researched any other diseases at this point.

    I am putting it in my drinking water, and my tub. Like I said, for $20 it’s worth a try. Is it not worth following up by checking out the clinics that are apparently being set up in Mexico & Africa. I haven’t had time.

    For some reason after starting MMS I snapped out of a severe depression from falling and being re-traumatized. I have not felt emotionally, physically, intellectually & Psychicly sp? better for many years.

    This was long, but I felt I needed the naysayers to get the picture. I will be truthful when I get the next blood tests, if this site is still open.

    1. Dougeroonie

      glad to hear you’re doing better. Have you heard of the newer protocols for MMS? smaller doses once an hour?? MMS breaks down aprx in that amount of time. Also there’s CDS which you can learn how to make at:

      1. The problem of MMS is the package that Jim Humble sent has a overdose instruction in it (21 drops from each bottle -one acid, the other choride) – I followed the instruction word to word (that’s what Nash’s wife has done!) – I almost died — my trusting attitude almost kills me. I am a 5’6″ 110lb person following that instruction 21 drops each – I have cramps for 5 straight hours, sweating bullets, alternating between chills and heat, alone in my house until a friend happens to drop by to say Hi, I would die. 5 hours without improvement, instead getting worse. I have never had cardiac arrest before. I have problem breathing through my tightened up chest (pain) when my friend showed up. I sent him to buy a big jug of Distilled Water for me from the closest store. He came back in about 8 minutes. I was on the throne squirming with pain. Thank God what if I lived in the remote area like Nash’s is! My friend shuffled 2 cups of Distilled water down my throat. I tried with all my might to hold that water in. 2 minutes after I successfully swallowed that water, I exploded from my front end — vomiting some grey and yellow stuffs — like a pressure sprayer I squirt all the grey matter from my internals everywhere on my clothes, my bed and the rug !! After that vomit, I fell so exhausted but I know I survived. I could sit up in my bed doing some research on these keywords “Dangerous MMS” – then Nash’s story came into sight. I said O Gosh, that’s exactly what I gone through. It is not a story – it is REAL HELL I’ve been through. I have exactly the same experience Nash’s wife gone thru!

  8. Canadian Farmgirl

    Thanks, Robert, I’ll be sure to check it out later this evening! You’re probably quite right about your doctor’s reaction at your next visit! ha!

  9. lompy

    found a great link for Buckleys’ lecture.. transcript is there as well.

    best regards

  10. lompy

    haha Julie pulled a few out with my tractor as well! –

    Well pleased with MMS so far, just getting healthier and stronger every day. Frankly, it’s still hard to believe that something so simple would produce such dramatic results. [ for me anyway ]

    Can’t wait to see my doctors’ response when i walk into his office next.. guarantee he will be shocked.
    probably no point in telling him how i found this glowing health… Health Canada has him by the little piece of skin that used to contain his testicles
    and thinking outside the realm of approved ‘medicines” ist verbotten!

    Julie, have you seen Shawn Buckleys’ vancouver lecture on youtube? check it out if you can.
    Buckley is a constitutional lawyer who has represented Natural health Product producers in canada.

    The lecture he gave was an eye-opener and worth watching imho.

    thanks for your post!

    best regards, robert

  11. Canadian Farmgirl

    Great posts, Lompy. Your analogy with the Lexus reminded me about the joke about 4 wheel-drive SUV’s…it just means you need a longer tow rope because you get stuck in deeper places! In fact, our neighbour got herself an expensive vehicle like that, and promptly got it stuck in the ditch across the road from us (we live in the country), requiring my husband to pull her out with a tractor 🙂

    So happy to read of your success with MMS. Wishing you continued improvements with your health, Julie.

  12. lompy

    re: debunking.. the posts are informative but this MMS [ at least for me ]appears to work. more information is always better than less.. but i don’t consider mms and jim humble ‘ debunked ‘

    i doubt that anyone would dispute the old axiom ” the steeper the climb.. the better the view… ”
    some folks scramble up that hill… brave the bears and bugs and snakes, .. maybe skin a knee or two.. or perhaps plunge to their deaths…. the ” view ” is worth it.

    other people who enjoy the view after the steep climb -arrive at the top of the hill in an air-conditioned Lexus on a smooth paved road.. they get the same fine ‘ view’ albeit many years later and only after the climb has been made ‘safe’ enough for them to attempt it.
    they can even admire the view from a cozy seat in the restaurant next to the nice warm fire.

    and safe as it may be.. each year a few drink too much or slide on the snowand ..and the Lexus ends up crumpled at the bottom of a chasm….. after skidding off the approved road, on their approved tires, across the approved highway shoulder, over or through the approved barriers,
    and despite the approved seat belts and the approved airbags.. they meet the same fate as the unfortunate climber did many years previously. [ before any of it was approved]

    how safe is ‘safe’?

    how do i know if it works or not if i don’t TRY it?

    and who would try anything without doing a reasonable risk/benefit assesment first?

    sorry for the long posts.

    ” a cynic knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing ” oscar wilde

  13. lompy

    i really appreciate reading this thread…thanks!

    my experience with mms comes with a healthy dose of skepticism.

    having said that, when faced with a choice between using a very nasty antibiotic
    [ Clindamycin ] which i was prescribed for a nasty infection… [ oral infection with lock jaw ] i was in fear for my life. The side effects were extremely unpleasant and dangerous…and REAL.

    when the Clindamycin produced side effects, my doctor precribed other drugs [ with equally nasty side effects ].. i left his office.. picked up my presciptions and went home and ordered the MMS. i had researched MMS and was intrigued, but skeptical. i resolved to discontinue the antibiotics and in fact, never opened the new package as the side effects listed in block letters plain scared the hell out of me. i still have it unopened.

    perhaps my fear was somewhat natural after reading Starfield study, “Is US health really the best in the world?”, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. [ avail as .pdf with simple search ]

    the Starfield Study concludes that total of medically-caused deaths in the US every year is 225,000.. . which includes 106,000 deaths from FDA-approved correctly prescribed medicines.

    the mms arrived in two days…. two doses of 2 drops [ 6:00 p.m. and 10 p.m. ] and went to bed. in the morning my swelling was reduced and i could open my mouth about 1/3 of the way.

    this was good.

    that was two and a half weeks ago, now the infection is completely cleared and i feel great.

    aside from feeling slightly nauseous and making frequent trips to the bathroom, especially by direct comparison… the side effects of mms were ‘minimal’.

    the benefits of the mms seem pretty significant as well [ tho it’s still early in the game 8 drops and counting ] my palor is becoming nice and rosy, my underarm odor is almost completely gone [ huh! ] and i swear my arthritis condition is improving. i also feel that my thinking is clearer. my friends can SEE the change in my health. oh yeah, the wisdom tooth that caused the infection no longer pains me whatsover. [ still getting it pulled out though…]

    i so appreciate all the evident research people here are doing and i find the thyroid aspect very interesting and worth further consideration
    [ for which i thank you ]

    as far as safety of the product is concerned.. guess i’ll find out. still, i KNOW how unsafe the ‘approved’ alternatives to mms are, so i’ll go with the odds. going to continue my peasant clinical trial.

    a friend has started using mms for his hep c and rare brain fungus that he contracted a few years ago. i’ll will forward the information on possible thryoid damage to him..

    Thanks for your informative posts.

  14. RedDog

    I’m more concerned with the collateral long term effects. I’ve read as much of the science on Chlorine Dioxide in vivo as I could, and one thing stands out clearly. All scientist and scientific studies are reductionistic in nature. They wear blinders in order to focus on one particual thing.

    Unfortunately, the body does not. There is a broad spectrum of reactions going on in the body to our food and environment, let alone any medications or chemicals.

    My concern is what I’ve learned about Flouride, Chlorine and Bromine ions displacing the iodine ion in the bodies very important endocrine gland: The thyroid. Hypothyroidism is one of the most under diagnosed problems in the world.

    You can do your own research, but what I’d like to see from MMS users is a forum posting of their Broda Barnes Axillary (underarm) Temperature Test, before and after using MMS.

    I supect that the use of MMS products act similarly to the other ions which impact the thyroid in a negative manner, leading to all kinds of future diseases.

    If nothing else, users of MMS would want to work at maintaining thyroid health, especially if they are already afflicted with a low functioning thyroid.

  15. mee

    My friend told me of a program he saw of time travel and the “theoretical science” it is based on. Basically they come up with a theory and it is down to others to prove this theory incorrect as it is not proven yet still stands untill proven otherwise. On this basis Jim Humble made his claims first.

    We do not know the long term concerquences of aspartame use or GMO use and know as fact that GM crops behave differently to the claims made in the start.
    We’re still growing them, whats your point.

    Nausea, diarrhea, vomiting – those are signs of a reaction to a toxin – yes this is true but not only and souly the signs of a reation to a toxin.

  16. mee

    Who ever linked to this site in the first place is a fool. Titling your site like you have set you up for any comebacks. Be a big boy and accept that.

    look at the name of your blog, you’ve debunked nothing.
    I found that site because it was linked here – simple.
    After looking through the site that is my opinion and shared this.
    Now you use my opinion to further your cause – what you do not realise is that this does nothing.

    You say CLO2 is dangerous and should not be used, that there is no evidence to support any claims it is beneficial to health – yet – on the other hand you provide nothing to support your claims it is harmful.
    And plese do not quote tests made years upon years ago that where carried out not to the offical protocol.

    No tests have been carried to the protocols by impartial means. When you have evidence instead of scare tactics then please do post your findings.

  17. mee

    I suppose by your argument MMS is exactly the same as Chemotherapy as in it does not discriminate between healthy and unhealthy cells.

    1. palpable

      EXACTLY – MMS cannot discriminate between healthy and unhealthy cells. That is it.
      Why so? Because it reacts with molecules – mainly amino acids. All living organisms use the same amino acids to build proteins. So it reacts with whatever amino acid it bumps into first – which are our amino acids.

      1. mee

        yet people still use chemotherapy, go figure

      2. that lady that died is bullshit an lies i accidently took 120drops at once i was sick the whole day vomitting and shitting like crazy and was better the next day i am alive an well dont beleive every thing u hear

  18. mee

    I beg to differ that mms reacts with normal tissue as i use it on my open skin and orally aswell as in higher strenghs as mouth rinse. To point out the obvious – this is my experience with my biochemistry as the most important factor.
    The above abstracted prove absolutly nothing.

    CLO2 is now avalible in all outdoor store as the number 1 method for purifiing water as iodine/iodine tablets have now been rmove from sale.

    Jim humble does not claim CLO2 kills antrax, the US goverment do. Aswell as it being used in New Orleans after hurracain katie or what ever its name was to kill fungal spores. Different aplications require different amounts.

    I am simply giving a voice to the other side of this arguement. My only interest is in the truth.

    Now there are more and more people taking CLO2 with much less effects than the promoted medicines which have side effect lists that are worryingly long.

    If the only reason to argue so much against mms is for peoples safty and wanting to stop people being scammed then this makes no sence what so ever as you do not mention once the ill effects of subscribing to the established accepted medical and chemical methods currently responsible for many thousands of deaths.

    Be happy in that you have done your heart felt duty but understand you are misguided and somewhat off track with your concerns.

  19. mee

    I’m not getting into any of the unconstructive talk, enough effort has been aimed at that. I like anyone else will notice the one sided arguement from those against, opposed to who want to understand further.
    Above is an earlier post of mine explaining why i think CLO2 does not harm healthy cells – this as yet has not been addressed, yet still repost after repost stating that CLO2 will treat all cells etc the same.

    Facts: I have taken appox 40ml in 1 month with no ill effects. If this was such a toxic substance as has been claimed then why does my body not attempt eject the solution straight away as it does with salt water? Why does my body allow the solution to travel through my system?

    No one has addressed the oxidation of the CLO2 in comparison to oxygen and ozone.

  20. mmsdebunked

    Again you accuse me of “dishonesty”. The first mention of my site here is a post:

    “By: me on February 16, 2010 at 1:38 pm”

  21. well the test worked but when i try to post 3 paragraphs it fails. so i put my reply on my site.

    You obviously have a vested interest in MMS so i don’t doubt you will just dismiss my arguments. I just hope that i can make other people think twice before believing Jim’s and your fantastic claims.

    1. I have a vested interest in correct information. You don’t know me, nor Jim Humble, and your knee jerk accusations simply reveal that you appear to have no knees. In other words, no humility. I don’t need to make up claims. You certainly are in no position to declare that certain “cures” are impossible, when there are indeed many ways to show that they are. So your thoughts are not your own. You are simply a puppet for the thoughts and opinions of others. In fact, the worse kind, because a real puppet doesn’t have the ability to know better, but you do.

      Best wishes,


      1. I’m a knee-less puppet. that’s funny. Got any more? You’re a duck with no elbows. 😉

        If you just leave all the baloney at the door and stop trying to cloud the issue with your vaporous rhetorical nonsense, it is plainly clear what is going on here.

        THE FACTS:

        There is no cure for AIDS. Not MMS1, not MMS2, not DMSO.
        Jim Humble’s contribution to the fight against malaria is naught.
        MMS is a scam.

        Espouse all the nonsense you like.

      2. It’s easy to be boorish in anonymity. It’s easy to declare that something is impossible if that’s all you believe, and don’t understand, or choose to examine how the body works. It’s easy to call a different point of view nonsense, when you don’t speak from your own experience. People have cured themselves of AIDS, cancer, and a host of other conditions that people who you puppet for believe are incurable. If AIDS couldn’t be cured, then there’d be no reason for research, even by the people you appear to believe in.

        That’s okay. However, the vaporous part of this dialogue is over.

        I would never go onto your site and “promote” my point of view, or disrespect you, its host simply for disagreeing with me.

        I have no need to convince or “convert” people. Those who have the diseases that modern living and medical treatment have spawned, will continue looking for what works. They will be open. They can’t afford to have some “know nothing”, with ineffective treatments, tell them an “unapproved” method doesn’t work and their condition can’t be cured, when everything in the patient’s heart says it’s not so.

        If any future post from you throws flame, then I’ll apply the retardant. You can do or say anything you want on your own site. Sorry that you don’t really want to be helpful here. Unbalanced hopelessness and negativity aren’t helpful.

        Best wishes,


      3. I didn’t come here to throw flames, i came here to defend myself. I only found this post because you linked to my site here. In the process of throwing the first flame by calling my site BS and claiming that I am directly or indirectly funded by “Big Pharma” which is a ridiculous statement. I have no ties to anything even remotely medical, I happen to personally know someone who has been scammed by Jim Humble and this is my way of trying to spread the truth. Then you actually go on to claim that “I” don’t know “you”, which is a little bit hypocritical if you ask me.

        I never said AIDS is impossible to cure, I said there currently is no cure for AIDS. I don’t know where you got this from. People have NOT cured themselves of AIDS as you would claim, like it’s something that happens to a significant portion of the AIDS population. Yes I believe you might find a handful of people who were diagnosed with AIDS at some stage and later did not have AIDS but the mechanism for the remission is not known and actually currently being studied, including the FEW people that seem to be immune to AIDS.

        Like I said, i’m not trying to convert people like you, I’ve discussed MMS with enough “believers” to understand there is nothing on this planet that would convince them of the fraud. In the ocean of thousands of websites that sell or promote MMS, i am merely providing one island of reason and critical thinking so people who are still unsure might come across it and hear a voice of reason.

      4. No one knew you existed before you came here. No one has attacked you. I certainly didn’t link my site to yours, so you’re not being honest. You cannot speak to my experience, nor can I speak to yours. I know of people WITH AIDS who have turned it around using MMS, where nothing else worked. A reasoned person would acknowledge that there’s something that they don’t know. You haven’t done that here. What you or I believe is not important to someone who actually has the condition. And instead of showing some compassion and empathy for what they are going through, you want to cast doubt on an option that can help them, and is helping many more. I’ve spoken to doctors who have treated patients successfully with a range of conditions with MMS. They’re stocking it in their pharmacies now. Other places are making it available in stores. This is not delusion or fraud. Your refusing to acknowledge something that shows such promise in anonymity is the fraud. But then, you know that.

        The best thing you could do, since you’ve had your chance to present your reasoning, and links to your sites, is simply not present anything else here. If anyone wants to read your point of view, they know where to go. I’ll even leave the links in. But if it makes you feel “safer,” I can take them out too.



      5. mee

        I claimed a site linked to here was BS as it only had biased information attacking (for want of a better word) the use of MMS when there is already so much evidence for its use.

        The heading was something along the lines of MMS debunked – pls visit to find the truth.

        Either way it was linked from these posts and that is my opinion of the views held there.

        As Adam puts beautifully, no one with an arguement against has any evidence CLO2 is bad. No one with an arguement against has an open mind. Everything given to the argument against is only in scaring people with long chemical thingy doberies stating stuff that is out of context with the other less biased views.

        I will keep an eye on this blog but only in the hope some more accual users or people with experiances post

  22. palpable

    Let me decode some of the ABOVE abstracts:

    1- Decreased thyroxine = reducing thyroid hormone levels
    2- Erythrocyte alterations = damaging & destroying red blood cells
    3- Reduces glutathione = glutathione is the number one detoxifying enzyme in the body. You are becoming more toxic.
    4- Inhibited DNA synthesis = stopping your cells from repairing your damaged DNA, and preventing cell division
    5- Depressed spermatogenesis = sterility, and mutations
    6- reacts with amino acids = destroying your proteins (your cells are half protein)
    7- RBC (red blood cell) counts decrease = anemia, and less oxygen in blood


    Subchronic toxicity of chlorine dioxide and related compounds in drinking water in the nonhuman primate.
    Bercz JP, Jones L, Garner L, Murray D, Ludwig DA, Boston J.
    Environ Health Perspect. 1982 Dec;46:47-55

    The chemicals were administered in drinking water during 30-60 days subchronic rising dose protocols. The only unexpected and significant toxic effect was elicited by ClO2; this chemical inhibited thyroid metabolism in the animals at a dose of ca. 9.0 mg/kg/day. A statistically significant decrease of serum thyroxine occurred after the fourth week of exposure to 100 mg/l.concentration. The extent of thyroid suppression was dose dependent in each individual monkey, and was reversible after cessation of exposure
    Sodium chlorite induced dose-dependent oxidative stress on hematopoesis, causing decreased hemoglobin and red cell count and increased methemoglobin content.
    At the same time, serum transaminase (SGPT) levels showed significant subclinical elevation.

    1- Inhibited thyroid gland functions
    2- caused anemia, and destruction of RBCs
    3- SGPT increased = that’s an indicator of liver and/or heart damage.

    1. me

      Is this 100mg per lt? thats a hell of a lot. Even 9mg is a hell of a lot. These dont really truely reflect the mms protocol as it lacks a human subject – again monsantos arguement.

      So i guess really how does your mg dosage compare to drops as today, baring in mind that the protocol has an important point, flexibility depending on how you feel.

      And what about this, oxidation strength of 0.95 volts for chlorine dioxide molecule compared to 1.30 volts for oxygen molecule and 2.07 volts for ozone molecule.
      Have you found nothing on the net to attempt even a little debunk?

      Why to champion against mms i do not know, when there are so many serious side effects from perscription drugs not to mention baxter, glaxo and norvatis being made exempt from any come back what so ever from there vacines for man made flu.

      Chemotheropy even why not champion against this terrible option?

      1. palpable

        Dear Me (I’ve always wanted to start a letter like that),
        You fail to comprehend the obvious.
        Proponents on this site, along with Humble, have stated over and over one silly mantra:
        MMS ONLY REACTS WITH “BAD'” MICROBES, CANCER, AND VIRUSES. it leaves the “good” cells alone.

        All the above abstracts prove that CLO2 react with normal tissue.

        MMS proponents also stae that symptoms such as nause, vomiting, rashes, diarrhea are healing reactions. Complete nonsense – as the studies prove that a levels used in water treatment – MMS is damaging to normal cells.

      2. There’s nothing else to say Palpable. You may believe MMS is nonsense, so it is… to you. And that’s okay by me.

        You refuse to acknowledge that only certain molecules and organisms are impacted by chlorine dioxide. Yet, researchers for cancer and every other pharmaceutical suggest the same thing with their drugs. The only difference is that their treatment strategies are expensive, ineffective, and create new stress and toxicity in the body.

        People on this list are willing to listen to an intelligent explanation. They are interested in learning. However, no one wants or needs to be talked down to by an anonymous critic. They want someone to acknowledge their dilemmas and challenges, who acknowledges the harm that is being done by predominant practices. You’ve done none of that. Nor have you suggested any effective alternatives that they should consider. On this blog they can find many alternatives to MMS. They also find reminders to look inside, into their own psyche, attitudes and beliefs, as resolutely as they look to the remedies, for there they will find strength.

        Your point of view is potentially valuable, so I allow it. But at the same time, tune you out. There’s nothing else to say.

        I respect your right to your opinion, and give you the opportunity to answer the few critics you’ve riled. I don’t have to agree with you to respect you. But there’s a reason you’re talking to yourself.



      3. palpable

        Again, you have misrepresented me.
        On another thread on your site I have said I hate big pharma, hate most medial practices, and use alternative approaches exclusively in my own practice. I teach at alternative health care schools, and train a lot of alternative practitioners.
        Just because I am concerned about the possible effects of long-term use of a known toxin – CLO2, you and others choose to catageorize me as the “other”.
        I’ve been treating using alternative methods and teaching them for 30 years – and yes even fighting against what you call the evil medical establishment.

        So, Please save your judgements for someone you know something about.

        It is jim humble and others that are talking down by making up half-truths, and out right falsehoods. Followers repeat these impossible mechanisms – as if they understand them. Neither you nor Humble, or anyone else has addressed the very simple questions I have put forth. You may feel talked down to- but the questions are really simple. You have seen them all. You espouse your own mechanisms, so I assumed you would be willing to have a back and forth on the science (while not including your delusional interpertations of my motivations). Your feelings of being put down may relate to to your lack of knowledge in this area. I cannot go back and teach everyone BIO 101.

        Is this question talking down to anyone? – HOW CAN AN OXIDIZING AGENT ATTACK A MICROBES MOLECULES AND NOT ATTCK OUR MOLECULES? Please know they are the exact same molecules – so don’t get into charges, volts or other nonsense.

        We disagree on the propsed mechanisms of MMS. Humble’s explainations are riddled with holes. In 6 months no one has disputed my arguements. No one has answered even the simple question above.

        Adam, I suspect what upsets you most is that we probably see eye to eye on most of the other beliefs (and maybe therapies) you describe on your blogs. You cannot make me the enemy, the tool, the man, a schill. I’ve probably been in this fight longer than any of you – educating thouands. I may have put doubt in your mind.

        Adam, I hope any doubt allows you to have concern for those taking MMS on the long term basis. How can anyone possibly know the long-term effects of chronic use of a highly reactive chlorinated oxidizer? If you are truly a man of honor, which I believe, you will not let this very important question die.

      4. Palpable,

        I am aware of your comments about pharmaceuticals and medical practices, and that you use alternative approaches in your practice. I recall reading that. Your unwillingness to be PRESENT with the people who see some merits in MMS, and in the REASONS that they do — whether misguided in your opinion or not — is what I found so unpalpable. You focus on what you call the impossibilities and fallacies associated with MMS, and if you deign to acknowledge any benefit that its use might bring, you project fear into an unknown future, leaving no room to celebrate some relief in the PRESENT. People aren’t make this stuff up. You can bet if there was some real damage being done with MMS use, there’d be plenty people spreading the news.

        You accuse Jim Humble of making up “half-truths,” or outright falsehoods. Yet, his insight and initiative to present this information IN THE BEST WAY THAT HE KNEW HOW, has helped 10’s, if not 100’s of thousands of people. You don’t acknowledge any of this. You simply continue to cast aspersions on the man, questions on his work, without presenting any alternatives of your own.

        You speak about the “simple” unanswered intellectual questions you have put forth, but you have stayed clear of heart-felt excitement that truly understanding and using MMS intelligently might portend. So I figure we’re just where we are there. If you were truly open minded, you’re in a far better position to answer your own question than I am. And since he has spent his time and energy seeing what more MMS can do, Jim Humble wouldn’t really care one way or another to interact with someone who demeans him and his work when he has seen first hand, how it has helped so many people.

        No one has disputed your arguments in 6 months because no one really cares to “argue” with a closed mind.

        And with all of your experience, you have not, at least in this forum, suggested anything else that people might want to consider, a point I’ve made before, because there are open minded people here who would be interested. Your focus has been negative, even though you claim positive intentions.

        Why would you care if I had “doubt” or not about MMS? This reveals your true motive. No one can gain a true understanding while holding on firmly to doubt, for doubt is just fear in a five letter container. The MMS conversation isn’t going to die. In fact, it’s just getting started.



      5. palpable

        As always Adam, you avoid specific and substantive arguments and appeal to emotion.

        Simple: any oxidizer, including CLO2, will react with molecules independent of whether those molecules are found in a malaria virus, an anaerobic bacteria, an anaerobic bacteria, a cancer cell, or a normal human cell.

        A fact: Tryptophan is tryptophan; cysteine is cysteine; glutathione is glutathione; tyrosine is tyrosine. Whether they are found in HIV, or in your liver, or skin, or bone.
        These “essential to life amino acids” and they are all present in all organisms. All organisms.
        All are oxidized (destroyed) by CLO2.
        Therefore – CLO2 destroys your normal molecules, and therefore kills your cells.

        Argue against the above. Argue against this central theme of Humble’e MMS mechanisms – that CLO2 has a consciousness, and can somehow figure out how to prevent itself from reacting with the tryptophan in your cells, and then somehow search out HIV, and react with it’s amino acids.

        Can you for once, just once, answer a specific question – the above question. Ask Jim Humble to answer.

        Any thinking person would have concern for the long-term use of any substance or drug, no matter how “natural”, or “benign”. A water purifier (CLO2) that kills most organisms – is not benign.

        Many have had life-saving results from antibiotics – does that mean antibiotics should be used long-term? I don’t think so – do you? From your logic it would seem so.

      6. mee

        Oxygen is an oxydiser right!? Anyways i’ve seen no where no one mention to take mms long term or at a specific dose. Using the mms protocol is the only way i am aware of.

        As for your claims that under the circumstances of using the protocol as advised will destroy normal healthy cells, im not convinced this is anymore than what the majorities current diet already does..

        McDonalds food for a prolonged time (1month) was proven to damage the liver and have very ill effects yet there it is day after day for so many children who are still developing – IT IS THEIR CHOICE (parents) – i fail to see your point.
        Iodine has recently been taken off the shelfs in outdoors shops because some muppet took to much – where does this stop – take salt off the shelfs when someone takes to much, perscription only?? All because of a few idiots we all must suffer – I dont think so. Incidently though CLO2 has replaced iodine in all outdoors shops as the worlds most effective water purifier.

        I’d like to see the studies – note – not the many documents for different uses done throughout the years but the studies showing that mms taken under the protocol is conciderably more dangerous than aspartame and the many artificial sweeteners for profit, fluride, MSG, GMO, pollution breathed in from the many lazy people driving everywhere for the sake of it, coca cola, vinegar, so on and so forth.

        My doctors only concern was the possibility of raised blood pressure from the sodium content of CLO2. Combined with a healthy as possible diet (everything your body needs to be healthy) and not processed crap clogging up out filtration systems I have never felt better.

        Your arguement seems to have changed track, though perhaps I missed something. If you simply are genuinly concern then that is nice of you but get one thing straight, we all have free choice.

      7. palpable

        An oxidizer is a molecule or atom that accepts electrons.

        My main claim has been repeated over and over – that CLO2 reacts with the normal molecules of our cells. Humble claims it avoids our cells molecules, and seeks out only the molecules of “harmful” microbes, or cancer cells.
        My point is = this is not possible. My point has yet to be refuted.
        That point, Along with the many other incorrect statements about physiology and biology by Humble – have been outlined in other posts concerning physiology.

        Genuiune concern has been my only motivation.

        I have read of many persons taking it long term. We do not know the consequences

        I have read of many getting nausea, diarrhea, vomiting – those are signs of a reaction to a toxin.

      8. mee

        My friend told me of a program he saw of time travel and the “theoretical science” it is based on. Basically they come up with a theory and it is down to others to prove this theory incorrect as it is not proven yet still stands untill proven otherwise. On this basis Jim Humble made his claims first.

        We do not know the long term concerquences of aspartame use or GMO use and know as fact that GM crops behave differently to the claims made in the start.
        We’re still growing them, whats your point.

        Nausea, diarrhea, vomiting – those are signs of a reaction to a toxin – yes this is true but not only and souly the signs of a reation to a toxin.

      9. mee

        Dear me lol, as I have stated already so does chemotherapy yet it is still promoted.
        Nausia and vomitting are the 2 most commen methods for our body to discard toxins etc from our bodies – the natural ways which are not socially accepted. Rashes also from my experiance appear sometimes when ill, this makes perfect sence to me, being open minded as I am.

        “Complete nonsense – as the studies prove that a levels used in water treatment – MMS is damaging to normal cells.” What is this ment to mean?

        But i’ll take this oportunity to once again point out that there are many other medical methods taht are damaging to normal cells not to mention the hundreds of thousands of processed foods and addivites that are detrimantal to our health, so again, what is your point?

  23. palpable

    I have more abstracts, but please, do some research yourselves. Again – there are 3 facts which cannot be disputed:
    1) CLO2 oxidizes human molecules
    2) CLO2 damages normal human cells
    3) The Short-term use of a powerful oxidizing agent (a toxin) cannot be compared to its long-term use.

    Oh and a little more basic chemistry (again). Molecules or organisms DO NOT have a pH.
    The pH is the measusre of the acidity of a solution -the case of living things – a solution of water and molecules.
    It drives me nuts when some of the promoters claim CLO2 hunts out molecules with a certain pH. Just say CLO2 steals electrons from molecules, OK?
    That will make you sound, at least, a little more scientific.

    So yes – when amino acids, fatty acids, ketoacids, etc. are placed in water, the water becomes more acidic (lowering the pH).
    And as we have seen, CLO2 (when in water) reacts with fatty acids and amino acids – your fatty acids and amino acids.

    1. me

      You supply nothing to support points 1 or 2 and you do not address my point on your point 3.

      Also dosage and duration are not stated

    2. me

      Apologise i’m tired and bored of your long drawn out unsubtantiated answers which provide what you continually request – proof.

      Point 3 really depends on the amount aswell as duration, all protocols state this.

      My point was against your point 2 – the CI02 @93v opposed to oxygen ‘ 1.20v(aprox)


    3. me

      sry i really am bored of you. heres a correction from above (yawn)

      Apologise i’m tired and bored of your long drawn out unsubtantiated answers which do not provide what you continually request – proof.

  24. palpable

    CLO2 damaging red blood cells, and maybe the liver and kidneys…..

    Toxicity of chlorine dioxide in drinking water.
    Abdel-Rahman MS, Couri D, Bull RJ.
    J Environ Pathol Toxicol Oncol. 1985 Sep-Oct;6(1):105-13.

    Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) is currently being considered as an alternate to chlorine as a disinfectant for public water supplies. Studies were conducted to determine the toxicity of ClO2 in drinking water in rats.
    After nine months treatment the osmotic fragility of the red blood cells was decreased in all treatment groups,
    after 9 months RBC counts, hematocrit and hemoglobin were decreased in all treatment groups.
    ClO2, ClO2- and ClO3- administered chronically in drinking water for three months inhibited the incorporation of 3H-thymidine into nuclei of rat testes. Also, this inhibition was observed in the liver of ClO2- groups and in the kidney

    1. me

      And again as above, rats not humans – Monsantos arguement. And dosage and duration

    2. me

      Oh and this research is very old are you sure it is still accurate?

  25. palpable

    More essential amino acids destroyed………

    Reaction of chlorine dioxide with amino acids and peptides: kinetics and mutagenicity studies.
    Tan HK, Wheeler WB, Wei CI.
    Mutat Res. 1987 Aug;188(4):259-66.

    Many organic compounds present in water and food treated with ClO2 are subject to oxidation.
    Chlorine dioxide reacted only with 6 amino acids – cysteine, tryptophan, tyrosine, histidine, hydroxyproline and proline.

    1. me

      Again what dosage and duration?

  26. palpable

    MORE – the 3 following amino acids are essential to human and bacterial life. CLO2 knows no difference between your and a bacteri’s tryptophane. WHY? Cause there the same molecule.

    Chlorine dioxide reaction with selected amino acids in water.
    Navalon S, Alvaro M, Garcia H.
    J Hazard Mater. 2009 May 30;164(2-3):1089-97. Epub 2008 Sep 7.
    Department of Chemistry, Universidad Politécnica de Valencia, Valencia, Spain.

    Chlorine dioxide is a hypochlorite alternative disinfectant agent. In this context, we have determined the products formed in the reaction of ClO(2) with selected amino acids. The reaction of tryptophane, histidine and tyrosine

    1. me

      In this case then please tell how the human immune system differentiates between yours or a bacteri’s tryptophane?

      1. palpable

        ME –
        tryptophane (tryptophan) is the name of an essential amino acid – it is the same in all organisms, that’s the point – no difference. Histidine and tyrosine are essential amino acids in humans and bacteria.
        ALL organisms use the same 20-22 amino acids to build all there structures -when it comes to the molecules that form proteins, and DNA there is no difference between you, a potato, or a bacteria.
        That is why CLO2 reacts with all living things – their amino acids and DNA (Purines).
        Google it.

  27. palpable

    Toxicological effects of chlorine dioxide, chlorite and chlorate.
    Couri D, Abdel-Rahman MS, Bull RJ.
    Environ Health Perspect. 1982 Dec;46:13-7.

    Review of the available literature obtained from both acute and chronic experiments utilizing rats, mice and chickens treated with ClO2, ClO2- and ClO3-in drinking water has demonstrated alterations in hematologic parameters in all species tested.
    Treatment groups receiving ClO2, ClO2- or ClO3- showed alterations in erythrocyte morphology and osmotic fragility; at higher dosages mild hemolytic anemia occurred. An examination of blood glutathione content and RBC enzymes involving glutathione formation showed a dose-related diminution of glutathione in chlorine compound treated groups.
    The higher oxidative capacity of the chlorine compounds resulting in the decreased erythrocytic glutathione might well be the principal biochemical event leading to the other hematological alterations. More recent data show that ClO2, ClO2- and ClO3- alter the incorporation of 3H-thymidine into the nuclei of various organs of the rat.
    These data suggest the possibility of increased turnover cells of the gastrointestinal mucosa and inhibited DNA synthesis in several organs. In the latter category, most concern revolves around whether or not the apparent depression of DNA synthesis in the testes is associated with depressed spermatogenesis and reproductive toxicity in the male rat.

    1. me

      Again no mention of the dosage or duration, details somebody of your self given calibur should not have left out if being truely unbiased

      1. palpable

        You can look up dosage by googling it on google scholar – if that is helpful to you.
        The point repeated over and over here and elsewhere is that CLO2 does not react with normal healthy tissues. The above study, and in fact all studies, demonstrate that it does react with normal tissue.
        That’s the point – molecules have no bias.

        It reacts at all concentrations – it has to. Eventually all oxidizing molecules react, whether it is one molecule, or 1 trillion molecules. The higher the concentration the more molcules destroyed. The events are the same no matter the concetration – only the number of molcules destroyed changes.

        Imagine – pouring hydrogen peroxide on a cut. You see bubbles. The bubbling indicates it is oxidizing your now exposed healthy tissues and the hopefully the few microbes hanging around. It, like all other oxidizers do one event – steal electrons.

        No selectivity, no discrimination.

    2. me

      Also as Monsanto stated when tests on animals proved harmful effects from there products – simply because it occurs in rats or in this case chickens and mice it should not be assumed this is the case for humans.

      1. palpable

        Rats and all other mammals have have the same structures, enzymes, neurotranstmitters and hormones. All animals have the same building block molecules: Amino acids, fatty acids, carbohaydrates, DNA.

        They don’t do research on rats to come up with the next viagra, or prozac – that is to – to treat depression, or induce erections in rats.

        When they test for the toxicity, or the cancer inducing qualities of a substance (like CLO2), they use rats because they the exact same detoxification systems and detoxification enzymes. The same molecules (proteins), built from smaller molecules (amino acids) that all living organisms on planet Earth share.

        Imagine a leggo set – lots of different types of pieces. ALL organisms are built from this one leggo set. The available pieces are just arranged slightly differently to create different organisms. The pieces of Leggos are molecules. Oxidizers destroy molecules. Oxidizer has no intention or thought. It simply steals electrons from molecules – the leggos, all leggos.

  28. palpable

    Real science – for a change.
    This took me about a half an hour search on Pub-Med. I know there are a lot more examples, but I do get tired of teaching basic biology.

    Below are titles of actual research articles from scientific journals (you can look them up on google scholar). I’ve taken the relevant sections of each abstract to make it simple for you’all.

    Mechanistic aspects of ingested chlorine dioxide on thyroid function: impact of oxidants on iodide metabolism.
    Bercz JP, Jones LL, Harrington RM, Bawa R, Condie L.
    Environ Health Perspect. 1986 Nov;69:249-54.
    Toxicological studies dealing with recent findings of health effects of drinking water disinfectants are reviewed. observation that subchronic exposure to chlorine dioxide (ClO2) in drinking water decreases serum thyroxine levels in mammalian species can be best explained with changes produced in the chemical form of the bioavailable iodide.

    1. me

      you left some important information out in your quest to make things simple for us all, namely the amount administered.

      Yes i will no doubt come across these writings if they are truely relevent yet like the patent to talk of above this paper is very dated indeed.

      I think in the name of fairness and not only your personal quest you could have pasted the amount as this would have been very helpful as opposed to only helping your agenda.

      If you are unbiased why do you not address the facts

    2. RedDog

      Thanks for that Link Palp, I was thinking that mms would have that reaction in the thyroid. Now if we could get Jim’s 100,000 users to take their BBA tempurature!

    3. RedDog

      I just read that article, and it is very very informative, even for a dumb guy like me. They made the distinction between “in vitro” versus “in Vivo” humorsly in that they could not get the monkeys to drink 200mg/L dosed water due to the taste and smell.

      What they did find is interesting:
      “The most surprising observation in our studies was
      that C102 is a relatively potent thyroid inhibitor, showing
      clear physiologic effects at about 9 mg/kg/day dose
      in 11 of 13 animals studied (1). In this study we also
      showed that, in monkeys intubated with a gastric tube,
      C1O2 does not survive the organic environment of the
      stomach, and over 98% of the oxidizing capacity of an
      instilled C102 solution (60 ppm) disappears within a few
      minutes. In addition, we showed spectroscopically that
      mixing monkey saliva with C102 solution at various reactant
      ratios results in the instantaneous reduction of
      C102. Thus, neither the intact molecule nor chlorite
      (C102-) or chlorate (C1037) is absorbed to any significant
      degree from the stomach when C102 is consumed.”

      Makes one wonder if the malaria studies are mostly placebo?

  29. palpable

    As always, I’m waiting for a rebuttal to my original arguments:
    1) FACT: CLO2, or any other oxidizer, will react with infectious microbes molecules the same as does with our normal molecules.

    2) FACT: Dr Thomas Lee Hesselink, MD – states that CLO2 oxidizes amino acids, fatty acids and DNA. All organisms have the same amino acids, DNA building clocks, and fatty acid building blocks. Which means CLO2 oxidizes our tissues. See link above, and try actrually reading your heroes science and understanding what it really means.

    3) Serious CONCERN: The long-term consumption of a powerful oxidizing agent. You cannot know what will occur – so you cannot say. Smoking’s OK for several years. Exposure to radioactivity (living downwind to a plant) is no problem for years.

    As for the above patent application:
    1) I say so what. It too is just claims and hopes of how CLO2 might work – nothing shoiwing that it does.
    2) Thousands of patents are given every year for useless crap.
    3) The above patent is 11 years old. What has become of this miracle product?

    1. me

      You state 1)FACT: CLO2, or any other oxidizer, will react with infectious microbes molecules the same as does with our normal molecules. where is your evidence? as i stated already, oxidation strength of 0.95 volts for chlorine dioxide molecule compared to 1.30 volts for oxygen molecule and 2.07 volts for ozone molecule.

      This is a reason why i say it does not oxidize healthy cells.

      Where is your reasoning other than an unsubstantiated claim

      1. palpable

        Hey S, its basic biology as I’v explained 20 times. Oxidizers steal electron from molecules – they know no difference between a molecule from a harmful microbe, and a molecule from human cells.
        There are some abstracts below clearly stating that CLO2 oxidizes normal cells.
        It simply accepted chemistry – by all.
        The proof is on you to overturn 100 of years of accepted science, Einstein.

    2. me

      Again in your 2nd point;- 2) FACT: Dr Thomas Lee Hesselink, MD – states that CLO2 oxidizes amino acids, fatty acids and DNA. All organisms have the same amino acids, DNA building clocks, and fatty acid building blocks. Which means CLO2 oxidizes our tissues. See link above, and try actrually reading your heroes science and understanding what it really means.

      He states this perhaps yet you provide no factual evidence to back up your empty claim.

      1. palpable

        Hey “Me” –
        You do realize that you are picking an argument with the chemistry of Dr. Hesslink – a propnent of MMS. Maybe you don’t know?

        It appears you have not read his article on the propsed mechanisms of MMS, so let me repeat (again) this section from his article.
        From Thomas Lee Hesselink, MD:
        Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) is highly reactive with thiols (RSH), polyamines, purines, certain amino acids and iron, all of which are necessary for the growth and survival of pathogenic microbes.”

        The above is the mechanism – supposedly. All these molecules are present in human cells – which again means MMS oxidizes our cells. Thats a fact – now its your turn to reverse all known chemistry and biology. I’m waiting.

        There’s no special charge, structure, or “volts” that distiguinsh human molecules from non-human molecules. All the above mentioned molecules are the exact same structure and electrical charge. That’s why they are given those names – like thiol, or amino acids. Geez “Me” have you ever taken a junior high biology course?

        No doubt, you would probably ask me for proof that the earth is round, or that 2 + 2 = 4.

  30. me

    WHAT IS THIS BS SITE? it claims:

    “To defend his total lack of any scientific evidence, he claims a global conspiracy against him by pharmaceutical companies which would be “put out of business” if his miracle cure was widely disseminated”
    There is plenty of scientific evidence, which is why i do not believe the site has any good intentions – no doubt financed via big pharma, directly or indirectly.



    LOOK at CHEMOTHERAPY for health risks, THEN see What MAKES SENCE

    1. i tried to post a reply but it just takes me to a page that says “discarded”. this is a short test post.

  31. Lara

    I was reading for hours. Ok my 82 year old dad contracted pneumonia from the dentist ( I am sure of this)he also has a auto immune disease. We forgot that he was on 6 drops of mms at the time he couldn’t get up off the couch.. he thought he was farting when he got this huge amount of diarrhoea that frightened me and off we went to doctor then emergency. Tests for everything including Swine Flu and dad was home and fantastic in 48hours! I have x rays blood tests and asked the lovely docs if they knew why he had diarrhoea. They said..they didn’t know.. it was unrelated. I knew why; and dad was well and happy instead of dead like my friends dad’s who died in hospital with pneumonia. We are gentle with mms.. I even forgot another time I was on 6 drops and got stung by a queen ant. My entire foot was so swelled up that no vein or bone was visible. I called the hospital etc..and I too in 48 hours had the runs twice in 5 min gaps (and laughed) and my foot was nearly cured 100% only one dot was left of puss and small blister and no antibiotics were needed..nothing~! I love Jim Humble. Thank god for him.

  32. me

    oxidation strength of 0.95 volts for chlorine dioxide molecule compared to 1.30 volts for oxygen molecule and 2.07 volts for ozone molecule.

  33. me

    oxidation strength of 0.95 volts for chlorine dioxide molecule compared to 1.30 volts for oxygen molecule and 2.07 volts for ozone molecule.

    let the attacks begin – cue Palpable

  34. Todd

    Please check this patent on MMS filed in 1997

    I’m curious what Palpable thinks of this.

  35. Gilgamesh

    Hi palpable
    I never used MMS externally, but I had no problem using it internally, even 10 times a day, every hour.
    I would never use even one aspirin more than one a week. In my opinion MMS help with problems we dont even know we have, and I think we will discover a lot of unknown benefits, as millions of people around the World using it now.And I think it will help people with yin deficiencies, and yin and yang and qi deficiencies, and all things that doctors dont know. A friend of my wife went to see dozens of doctors over the years, and they all failed to find
    her problem, so she went to Mexico and the doctor there told her in 5 minutes what was the problem, and as she came back , her doctors also confirmed, it was correct. Millions of Americans every year travel to other countries for surgeries, and medical care, and I think it is not only the cost of medical care, but the doctors in other countries maybe better educated. We all know that thousands of people die every year from doctors and hospital mistakes.But the doctors only know what they know, the educators, who educate them, maybe little behind of other countries. But this is just my opinion, you may know more about this as you posted,that you are a medical educator. What is your opinion on this? I know ,politicians say that we have the best medical care, and best doctors, and best medicines in the World. But I would put your opinion on this above all what the politicians say. However what is true, is true, and as you say in your last post how MMS is harmful to normal living cells, without any evidence to back up your claim, That may not be true.You think, you maybe jumping the gun here a little bit?

    1. me

      yes i agree Gilgamesh and really to make half of the workforce of a heath service obsolite creates many more problems on so many levels. Without the pharma companies getting involved even.
      I am amazed that intelligent people on here argue pros and cons of this solution within a bubble so to speak.

      There are many factors outside the science of this like politics & monetary gain yet these are never mentioned when adressing why mms has never been on TV or why testing by goverment bodies has never taken place.

      Look at the laws that stop lableing of such products as vitamin B17. You cannot say that it helps aginst cancer even tho many many people will atest to this.

      It is never clean cut only about the science, never

  36. palpable

    I know nothing of ruthenium,and other PGMs.
    Searches lead me to overlong, convoluted articles that couldn’t get to the point.
    What is your point?

    As far as using MMS externally, well many products can be applied externally, directly on the damaged tissue, and yet should not be used internally. Read the labels of most skin preparations purchase at the pharmacy – “for extrnal use only”.
    Just as we use chlorine to disinfect pools – which contacts our skin, but would never ingest it internally.

    1. mms should be used internally,can be used internally,and is being used internally WITH THOUSANDS of life saving results.
      where do peope like you come from?
      planet pharma?

    2. palpable (who works for the death merchants?)(pharma),-SOME pool cleaner-shock is chlorine.this is NOT mms2 which is calcium hypochlorite.WHEN dumped into the pool it converts into HYPOCHLOROUS ACID,not chorine,which disinfects.get your propaganda better next time,and remember about karma…all those people who kill and hurt others are destined to be “removed” from the earth by the creator.I hope you r not one of them ,for your sake.

    3. i have noticed that the plague makers and genocidists,have developed a several pronged attack at mms,to blunt the life saving going on around the world.At least one way to spot one of their turds working as a shill for big pharme is when they use the “pool chlorine”
      i wil post other indications of a pharma shill later.
      peace to all the readers of this site.

      1. me

        are you active against codex alimentarious, friend

  37. Gilgamesh

    Hi palpable.
    Bristol-Myers biomedical research found, that our cells communicate with each other with light waves. And in my opinion, pathogens, harmful viruses and
    organisms would communicate with different light waves, or would have different light waves around them, than healthy, normal living cells. And MMS will not harm normal, healthy cells as many people used it on burn injuries, and had a faster better healing.
    Bristol-Myers research also found that ruthenium,and other PGMs in a high spin state dismantles the short DNA helix in cancer cells and rebuilds it again correctly, without harming normal cells,it only correct the distorted DNA helix, and the cancer is gone without surgery and radiation. Maybe you can explain the mechanism, or how ruthenium in a high spin state can dismantle the distorted DNA helix in cancer cells, and rebuild it again correctly?
    You can find more about this also in Laurence Gardner’s book; The lost secrets of the sacred ark, on page 122.

    1. me

      good point – there is still much about the body we do not know. And as our bodies belong to us, its our choice to try something we believe will not do us more damage

  38. palpable

    ADAM, here, the abstract that begins Hesselink’s article. As explained, all those same molecules are present in all our cells. As you said, and no one can argue with, CLO2 cannot choose between our molecules and an organisms molecules.
    Please do not trot out the negative/positve charge gobbledogook.

    By Thomas Lee Hesselink, MD
    Copyright September 6, 2007
    The purpose of this article is to propose research.
    Nothing in this article is intended as medical advice.
    No claims, promises nor guarantees are made.

    Sodium chlorite (NaClO2) can be acidified as a convenient method to produce chlorine dioxide (ClO2) which is a strong oxidant and a potent disinfectant. A protocol has been developed whereby a solution of these compounds can be taken orally. This procedure rapidly eliminates malaria and other infectious agents in only one dose. Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) is highly reactive with thiols (RSH) , polyamines , purines , certain amino acids and iron, all of which are necessary for the growth and survival of pathogenic microbes. Properly dosed this new treatment is tolerable orally with only transient side effects.

    1. me

      er it appears you are wrong

  39. palpable

    I started my comments to counter the pseudoscientific claims of MMS mechanisms presented by proponents.
    If you read my original posts, on a different thread, I clearly stated my philosophy: If it works, do it.

    I have never considered my responsibility to talk about its merits, because:
    1) Everyone else on this site talks about its merits.
    2) The mechanisms, so far proposed, are completely fabricated. This alone places the credibilty of all other claims in doubt. Geez – stop making up nonsense – just stick with “it works, and we don’t have a clue as to why”
    3) People should have all available information to make descisions concerning their health. Don’t you agree? I am supplying scientifically sound information.
    4) Individuals have reported symptoms – nausea, vomting, diarrhea, abnormal nerve sensations, etc, which indicate damage to tissues. Side effects should no be ignored.
    5) There can long term consequences to taking any potent substance – denying this possibility destroys the proponent’s credibility. There are no long term studies on MMS.

    Keep in mind the obvious:
    If MMS does all that you guys claim, it will sweep through the internet and society. It will be in every household. Nothing will stop it. Alternative treatments have grown exponetially over the last 20 years, despite AMA opposition.
    The random postings of palpable, on an obscure site, will have no effect whatsover if MMS is the real deal.

    1. me

      Why is it you do not comment on the different pharma drugs that have resulted in deaths instead of this reletivly new solution? (and no i do not mean on this page)
      There are many drugs that have very bad side effects and that have led to deaths, many, so why not look into these? and these are well known facts.

      Instead you choose to attack an area (and yes however subtle you are or however much you try to appear un bias) which simply you have not studied enough – hence your unsupported claims or you are using this area because you believe that this information does not exist which it clearly does.
      I’m referring to your claims (unsupported you crazy cow) that mms cannot choose between our molecules and an organisms molecules.

      Your state there is no evidence for when you have no evidence against – eh, say what?

    2. me

      You should go look into these so called vacines for swine flu with no come backs what so ever due to the odd exemptions that where imposed.

  40. Gilgamesh

    Hi palpable.
    I understand what you are explaining. And I think we may have to find out what we missing here, as
    the evidence is, that even long turn use of MMS is very safe, and there is no evidence that MMS is harmful, or react with the body’s normal and healthy molecules. And in my opinion, in our molecules we also have super conductive elements, and subtle energies, that could be a big part of the workings of MMS, and other things like homeopathy, and adaptogents and energy medicines.

    1. palpable

      First of all claims state that it is oxidizer, and by that it does in fact chemically react with normal molecules.
      From Thomas Lee Hesselink, MD:
      Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) is highly reactive with thiols (RSH), polyamines, purines, certain amino acids and iron, all of which are necessary for the growth and survival of pathogenic microbes.”

      The above named molecules are the same ones found in all human cells. Which means MMS damages human cells.

      Secondly, advice is given to start out with a very low dos as MMS is a powerful oxidizer, and thus it can cause damagee.
      Starting out slowly allows the body to react by making more antioxidants in order to detoxify MMS,

      Thirdly, no claims have been made that its mechanisms is homeopathic in nature. Homeopathic medicines have none of the original substance, only its vibration.

      Fourthly, no one knows that MMS does no damage in the long-term. Some people smoke for 40 years before they get cancer. Many toxins and drugs accumulate their damage over many years before symptoms arise.

      Many individuals get immediate reactions. This means it is damaging normal tissue. It is not die off of “bad organisms. As stated billions of bacteria normally die every hour.

      1. Palpable,

        Let’s say that EVERYTHING you say is true. Your conclusion is still undemonstrated in reality. The truth is that people are realizing profound IMPROVEMENTS in their state of health after taking MMS, and allowing the chlorine dioxide to do what it does. On the other hand, people who do not want to offend their doctors, or who want to take advantage of the health insurance they’ve paid for, are continuing to take admittedly toxic pharmaceutical and chemical treatments, continuing to consume chlorinated and fluoridated water, to the detriment of their health.

        You even emphasize the so-called dangers of chlorine dioxide by quoting the scientific findings of an MMS proponent. If Dr. Hesselink is actually saying what you’re intimating, it is still with an awareness that chlorine dioxide is a superior option to many that are currently being used. Your posts don’t acknowledge this fact, nor do you suggest options that you know to be worth consideration.

        Some highly intelligent people track the posts on this list, and would welcome any information that you feel is helpful. But you’re not going to convince anyone of the “dangers” of MMS when (1) you don’t acknowledge its merits, and (2) you haven’t been open enough to use it yourself and speak from experience.



    2. me

      oxidation strength of 0.95 volts for chlorine dioxide molecule compared to 1.30 volts for oxygen molecule and 2.07 volts for ozone molecule.

      let the attacks begin – cue Palpable

  41. palpable

    Hey S
    The point of your following post is what?

    “Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) has been proven to be cidal to almost all known infectious agents in vitro using remarkably low concentrations”

    Hey S, do you know what IN VITRO means? In means in a test tube, NOT in the body.
    That’s the point – thanks for agreeing with me.
    Everyone agrees CLO2, bleach, peroxides, all kill organisms. So whats your point?

    My point: Oxidizers react with normal tissue. CLO2 reacts with normal tissue.

    Address the above, if you can. Or is your snottiness your defense mechanism to hide your ignorance?

  42. CdnFarmgirl

    I think everyone feels badly for Mr. Nash’s loss, and it is unfortunate that there has been such antagonism between him and Jim Humble.

    My comments are (1) There HAVE BEEN clinical trials with MMS, according to Andreas Kalcher in Dan Bender’s recent MMS documentary. He is a scientist who stated that there were clinical trials performed in a U.S. hospital, using MMS topically for ulcerous lesions on diabetes patients. A 100% success rate…Many other clinical trials have been conducted in Spain and other European countries.
    (2) I feel that there are many drugs “legally” on the market which have undergone clinical trials, which have been skewed, either by lacksadaisical testing, or inhouse testing within a pharmaceutical company (ie. not at arm’s length_, just for the sake of making a profit) ie. Just because there has been a clinical trial doesn’t been it’s good for you (and yes, I realize that I am harming my point (1) …However, it does sound like the trials that were done on MMS were done properly…most doctors and hospitals were happy to take part, once they were explained the science.

    As more and more research is done by doctors and clinics on the effectiveness of MMS, I expect we will start seeing documented trials…although Big Pharma certainly won’t be too pleased about it.

  43. BJ Scully

    Well. I can not believe that Mr. Humble actually goes as far as saying ‘Mr Nash is trying too hard to blame it all on MMS. (…) I suggest that the police take a good look at Mr. Nash.’ He criticizes Mr Nash for his attack at MMS and goes on attacking him in return. Using the same methods one has just condemned does not exactly strike me as professional.
    If Mr Humble is indeed so convinced of the brilliance of this substance, he should not need to be afraid of any criticism, which in this situation should be more than understandable.
    Maybe he could instead say more about the reasons why there are no clinical trials about MMS. In the end, people will not believe what they are being told by anyone but base their usage of a certain drug based on scientific evidence. Clinical trials are being conducted for good reasons and there is no drug legally on the market which has not undergone any.
    So if Mr Humble is concerned with his credibility regarding MMS (which apparently is the case) it might help him and ‘mankind’ to provide a 3-phase clinical trial of MMS to show the actual risks, safety and success of this substance.

  44. s

    palpy, how is saying that something is “tolerable orally at effective concentrations” mean it is toxic??

    seems you are very very confused.

    1. palpable

      Hey S
      Speaking of toxicity………..

      Below is a link to one of the top videos on MMS. (MMS Chlorine Dioxide- Dr. Brady Hurst). He is a major proponent of MMS.

      Go to 6:00 minute mark. He describes a women taking 15 drops, 2 x day, for 30 days. She is developing facial nerve paralysis from using MMS.
      He goes on to say how MMS is “a hardcore oxidizer” and one needs to be very careful using MMS, and under the care of a physician.

      I’d be interested in your comments.

      1. Gilgamesh

        Hi palpable.
        The woman using 30 drops of MMS a day for 30 days, and developing facial nerve problem, from using MMS, is only your opinion.
        In my opinion with every 30 drops of MMS she takes 150 drops of citric acid
        every day, in 30 days that is 4500 drops of citric acid, and that could be her problem, to much citric acid.

      2. palpable

        TO Gilgamesh,

        Below is your statement:
        “Hi palpable.
        The woman using 30 drops of MMS a day for 30 days, and developing facial nerve problem, from using MMS, is only your opinion.”

        Dear Gilgamesh, I hate to spring this on you, but that wasn’t me in the video.
        It appears that you did not view the Video?
        That was a Chiropractor selling and promoting MMS, not I.
        He, not I, said the women had facial nerve damage from MMS
        He, not I, said it was hard core oxidizer.

        Maybe you should argue with him……..and not me.

        By the way, it’s one of the most popular MMS videos on the web.

      3. me

        not bad side effects at all compared to chemotherapy, and that everyone suffers from these side effects, unlike MMS where only very few people have to really monitor there dosage to keep these side effects to a minimal level.

        The voltage of oxygen is more than chlorine dioxide so therefore surely if oxygen (unless under extreme cercumstances) cannot damage normal healthy cells so then how can chlorine?

  45. s

    that’s hesselink, not hesslink. show some respect, palpy.

  46. s

    everything is toxic at some level palpy…

    and check your bad grammar and spelling at the door please. ‘injested’???


    1. palpable

      Great answer S.
      Everything is toxic. That settles it all.

      When you can explain how an oxidizer can oxidize only harmful bacteria and viruses, and leave good bacteria and cells alone, then you might have something to say.

      When you explain the above, keep in mind that all organisms are made from the same exact molecules: amino acids, fatty acids, glucose, and all the other organic molecules.
      Work that into your explaination.

      Thomas Lee Hesselink, MD states that it does in fact damage normal red blood cells:

      CLO2 oxidizes bacteria and viruses, therefore it oxidizes normal tissues. That’s my point. Try arguing that. Try using your own words, instead of irrelevant quotes.

      1. Happy New Year Palp,

        Let’s set aside the terms “harmful” and “beneficial” and replace them with charge… positive and negative. Chlorine dioxide does not look for “harmful” bacteria and viruses. It doesn’t “look” for anything. IF it comes in contact with anything that has a positive charge, being negatively charged, an electron exchange will occur. Charge influences ALL molecular organization and behavior, and exists in one of three states: positive, negative, or null. Nothing to do with harm or non-harm. All organisms are indeed made of the same molecules, but it is the arrangement, state, and net orientation of charge that distinguishes one from the next.

      2. palpable

        I believe you are sincere, but this proposed mechanism for CLO2 is complete nonsense. It has more holes in it than the one about CLO2 killing only anaerobic organisms (and the wrong assertion that only anaerobic organisms are bad).

        Yeah! We finally agree: CLO2 doesn’t look for anything, it only reacts with molecules.
        You assert it only reacts with positively charged molecules. If that’s the case you’ve got some explaining to do.

        Heres a few huge problems with the “positive charged mechanism”:

        1) The stomach contains HCL (hydrochloric acid). Acids are denoted H+, called a hydrogen ion. Hydrogen ions (acids) are the strongest positively charged particles known.
        2) The fluid in-between our cells contains uncountable numbers of positively charged molecules and ions.
        3) Our cell membranes are more positively charged on the exterior (NA+) sodium ions.
        4) The inside of our cells contain trillions of positively charged molecules and ions

        How in the world will CLO2 not react with all the above?

        Viruses are within our cells.
        How could a molecule of CLO2 possibly get deep within our cells – without first reacting with the trillions of positively charged molecules it will bump into (literally) on the journey to the center of our cells???

      3. Gilgamesh

        Hi palpable.
        All those positively charged ions, and molecules you writing about, are they
        AC positive, or DC positive?
        And this is just my first question.I have a second question. My MMS bottle cap was accumulating a lot of white powder, and I found, that I have more and more Sodium Chlorite in my MMS. My MMS bottle was next to my ORMUS GOLD bottle, just maybe a few inches away.Now I moved away the ORMUS GOLD bottle,and the white powder is not accumulating any more on the MMS bottle cap. I put 6 drops of MMS in a glass, and as it evaporated I found there was still a lot of Sodium Chlorite, more than would be normal.
        Can you explain how this is possible? How the ORMUS GOLD added extra Sodium Chlorite to my MMS? Just by siting a few inches next to it ?

      4. palpable

        To Gilgamesh,
        I don’t understand your second question – it’s beyond my knowledge base.

        The first question concerning AC/DC is not relevant to the positive and negative charges in the body. AC/DC has to do with how electricity flows along a conductor.

        The basics:
        Ions: are atoms or molecules that have a net positive or negative charge.

        All atoms (elements) start off with equal number of electrons (negatively charged), and protons (positively charged).
        Then they chemically react with another atom or molecule.
        All chemical reactions are gaining, or losing electrons.
        When an atom loses an electron, it now has one more proton than it has electrons, so it is positively charged (+1). If it loses 2 electrons its +2, if it loses 3 electrons, it +3.
        When an atom gains electrons, it becomes (-1), or gains 2 electrons (-2), and so on.

        It can be more intricate in molecules (combinations of atoms), but positive or negative charges are still due to extra electrons, or deficient electrons.

        Most organic molecules in the body have positive or negative charges. In fact, most proteins have one positive end, and one negative end.

        Nearly every chemical reaction in living things is catalyzed by enzymes. Enzymes contain positive and negative parts.

        The fluid and cells of the body contain uncountable positive and negative ions. (CA++, NA+, MG++, K+, CL-, SO-4………..on and on)

        So to say CLO2 works by tranferring its electrons to positively charged ions is simply stating it chemically reacts. But this is how half of the molecules in the body react – by losing electrons, rather than accepting electrons.

        To say MMS mechanism of action is to combine with positively charged substances, is to state it will react with half of the atoms and molecules in the body. This is true, no doubt. Which means it reacts with your body’s normal molecules.

  47. s

    hey, palp? did you read his conclusiuon???

    Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) has been proven to be cidal to almost all known infectious agents in vitro using remarkably low concentrations. This includes parasites, fungi, bacteria and viruses. The experiences noted above imply that this compound is tolerable orally at effective concentrations. Therefore extensive research is warranted to determine if acidified sodium chlorite is effective in treating other infections. We may be on the verge of discovering the most potent and broad spectrum antimicrobial agent yet known. Special thanks go to Jim Humble for his willingness to share his discovery with the world.

    by Thomas Lee Hesselink, MD

  48. Quantum Girl


    The issue for me, and hopefully for others, has been put to rest.

    Research suggests that MMS is a Non-toxic substance when used as directed, and works chemically as Jim Humble describes.

    It is unfortunate that bold claims against scientific progress are made without thorough research….especially when they attempt to defame the character of good soldiers, like Jim Humble, who want nothing more than to bring effective, low-cost, easy to administer SOLUTIONS to pain and suffering.

    I am now more convinced than ever, so I ENCOURAGE you all to explore MMS as potentially the most exciting Wellness development of our time.

    And thank you to Adam for this forum and ALL of his wonderful work!!

    1. palpable

      Dear QG,
      I’m happy it’s settled for you, it’s not for me.

      1) As for Dr. Hesselink, you have not addressed his assertion that CLO2 oxidizes and damges normal molecules in humans. It is in his paper on-line.
      As I’ve said, (as had Dr. Hesselink) an oxidizer cannot choose between the exact same molecules on an organism and the same molecules on your tissues.
      Do you, or any others on this forum, get that? It seems no one wants their bubble burst.

      2) As for Dr. Berg, his quote on CLO2 was written as promotional material for O7, another oxygen product. It was written 25 years ago. If this product (like CLO2) was a cure-all, it woul’d have swept through our society. But it hasn’t.

      Why hasn’t the CLO2 promoted by Berg cured all the AIDS patients that tried it? Or cure all the other problems it is promoted for?

      I worked at a school 20 years ago, where nearly everyone was on the product promoted by Dr. Bergs quote. Didn’t work.

      An why haven’t we seen anything from Dr, Berg on human use of CLO2 in that last 25 years since that quote?

      good luck with CLO2

  49. Quantum Girl

    Let’s be clear in each of the above examples, that these things DO NOT harm healthy tissue in low dose.

    EPA article states that Chlorine Dioxide is a “selective oxidizer.” I have now read that in 3 articles describing the chemistry of MMS.

    Again, I’m not the best one to be in this discussion (with my high school chemistry background). I just know what makes sense to me. It sounds like it has to do with electrical potential and ph.

  50. palpable

    Quantum girl, I think we have come to complete agreement. All those substances can be toxic.
    Although each has a different mechanism to do so.
    So I too wonder – Why anyone would say CLO2 is non-toxic?

    I’m not sure what you are looking for when you say address this?

    Table salt in high concentration – kills most microbes. Drink a glass of it and water, and you will vomit. Does that mean you should injest a lot of it and it will kill pathogens?

    O2 breathed in at 100% concentration can cause lung damage over time. Will excess O2 search out microbes anfd kill them?

    Alcohol is used to sterilize surfaces because it kills many microbes. If you drink a lot……will it search out microbes in the body and not affect you the consumer?

    See a theme here

    Since we are asking questions, its your turn. With your above examples in mind. Tell me how they differ from CLO2?
    How can CLO2 not affect normal tissue.

    1. Gilgamesh

      I think I m more amazed with DMSO, than MMS.
      DMSO is a very powerful, industrial solvent, it will desolve all organic materials, it will strip off the paint of the car, and everything, but will not harm the human cells in us. And DMSO heals all kinds of medical conditions in people, and animals, people use it topically, they use it as injections , and in IV,s. And it keeps the transplant organs live for transplant.
      So far the mechanism, how this work is not explained.
      In my Opinion maybe you can explain how DMSO work, or not work.
      And if you can do that, I m sure you can also explain how MMS works.
      You always explain how it is impossible for it work,but try to explain why it works for thousand of people who use it. Jim Humble explain the mechanism
      how MMS work, but if this is only his theory, and not the real mechanism, maybe you could explain the real machanism, how it works.

  51. Quantum Girl

    Hi Palpable,

    I will be simple as well:

    Why would Hesselink and Berg say something is non-toxic? What do they have to gain by this?
    Is table salt toxic if ingested in high doses?
    How about an herb, like Kava Kava?
    How about alcohol?
    What about oxygen? I really would like you to
    address this one.

    Seems to me dose determines toxicity in many cases.

    Why don’t YOU present your argument to Hesselink and others? That is what I would do if
    I had information that I thought was important to the health and safety of the public. You are more likely to be able to debate and question than i.

    It comes down to: Are you here to help or hinder? Creating doubt and skepticism is not in itself helpful.

    i posted articles for the sake of the public reading this, and to see if you would provide additional understanding.

    Listen – I think you sound like a smart, well-intentioned guy…I just don’t think you are being helpful. Humble is on to something…if it needs to be improved…let’s do it…if there needs to be more warnings….let’s do it….if there needs to be more studies…let’s do it.

  52. palpable

    To Quantum Girl;
    Have you not read my posts on Adams other blog? (where this discussion started).
    Below is the link.

    I think they are clear. I’m done with repeating the specifics over and over.

    Your response is confusing – you post scientific articles, and at the same time say I should debate elswhere, and that I shouldn’t expect people to be scientists. Then you post more science. Which is it? Do you want to talk science or not?

    As far as credentials? Jim was a gold miner. Yet I don’t discuss his credentials.

    Your current science supports my position.
    “Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) has been proven to be cidal to almost all known infectious agents IN VITRO using remarkably low concentrations”.

    DEFINTION: A procedure performed IN VITRO(Latin: within the glass) is performed not in a living organism but in a controlled environment, such as in a test tube.

    Not in a living body. That’s the whole point.
    No argument here that organisms are killed my CLO2 (as in water purification). Because it is an oxidizer and Oxidizers, oxidize everything.

    “Both Berg and Hesslink indicate it appears to be non-toxic, which suggests to me that there is a difference between the way in which healthy tissue and pathogens are oxidized. ”

    ME: The above is Incorrect.
    1) Non-Toxic: If it is non-toxic, then why not take as much as possible. Why is it suggested to start on small doses, or there may be problems.
    All scientific information states that CLO2 is a toxin. So dose is important – because it oxidizes normal tissue. Its ability to oxidize makes it a toxin.

    Everyone arguing against the above cannot have it both ways.

    2) Oxidation: Please find some literature on how pathogens are oxidized in a different way than our cells.
    You will not. Oxidation is oxidation.
    How do you think our immune cells get rid of our dead and dying cells? By Using the same oxidizers as they use on pathogens.

    As stated by Hesslink – CLO2 oxidizes amino acids and polyamines.
    Do you get that all organisms use the same 20 amino acids to make all proteins (we are 50% protein).
    And polyamines means DNA, and that all DNA in ALL organisms is formed by the same polyamines.

    I’m going to make it simple. This is where I started.
    Argue this point.
    I say: No Oxidizer can selectively react with pathogens, and not react with normal tissues.

    As far as your success – If you read my first post, you will see I stated “if it works do it”
    So good luck.

    However if your did read my first posts, I say I am a beiever in ” use it if it works”. So if it works for you – use it.

  53. Quantum Girl

    Hi Palpable,
    Thank you for the response.

    Dr. Hesselink is not Humble’s doctor, he is a Medical Doctor teaching Pre-Med at the University level. He is interested in furthering Science.

    Do not expect people on this forum to be Scientists. If you want to HELP, go debate on Scientific forums, then come back and provide UNDERSTANDABLE information to the general public.

    If you are going to use your knowledge to discourage people from doing something that could potentially reduce their suffering, then I think it would be responsible for you to openly reveal your credentials as Berg and Hesselink have done. That is what the lay public relies on, since we are not doctors.

    I am sticking with Hesselink. He states:

    Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) has been proven to be cidal to almost all known infectious agents in vitro using remarkably low concentrations. This includes parasites, fungi, bacteria and viruses. The experiences noted above imply that this compound is tolerable orally at effective concentrations. Therefore extensive research is warranted to determine if acidified sodium chlorite is effective in treating other infections. We may be on the verge of discovering the most potent and broad spectrum antimicrobial agent yet known. Special thanks go to Jim Humble for his willingness to share his discovery with the world.

    Both Berg and Hesslink indicate it appears to be non-toxic, which suggests to me that there is a difference between the way in which healthy tissue and pathogens are oxidized. Humble points out the Oxygen is a powerful oxidizer, yet obviously, we are not damaged by normal doses!

    By the way, after 10 days of MMS taken as directed, I feel like a million bucks! And my Quantum Biofeedback Practitioner says the Chronic Fatigue Virus that we have had such a hard time getting rid of through herbs and homeopathics, is for the FIRST time, resonating within normal range. I think THAT is exciting.

    1. CdnFarmgirl

      Congrats on the improvement of your health! I am so happy for you. I’m sure it’s like getting a new lease on your life. My father had a similar life-altering improvement through his use of MMS. I agree that Palpable’s comments belong to a debate forum, not a site which is read by lay people who will rely more on anecdotal reports than a chemistry lesson.

  54. Laure

    I’m glad we have the freedom to discuss things on the Internet. While I doubt there is any way to find out the “what really happened” facts of Sylvie’s situation, I know that it is possible to be “allergic” to just about anything in this world.

    I know there are MMS users who do muscle testing before taking MMS (and other things). I think this is an excellent policy to follow.

    I’d like to add that there are permanent solutions to these “allergies.” So even if an individual is indeed overly sensitive to MMS, it is possible to have non-invasive treatments done to teach the body to stop over-reacting. While there are an increasing number of variations available, the one that I have experienced and benefitted from (and subsequently trained in) is called NAET. Dr. Devi Nambudripad is another individual who, like Jim Humble, found a surprising solution to her own health dilemma and has been developing and refining it for 25 years now. You can find a practitioner near you by checking her website at

    Again, while I don’t know what happened with Doug Nash’s wife, occasionally allergic responses can devastating and life-threatening. And sensitivities can develop in ways that people don’t always expect, as well.

    I have used MMS myself. Besides recommending muscle testing and (if needed) resolution of hypersensitivity with NAET/NAET-type approaches, I agree with and endorse the directions to go slowly when dosing. I also agree with the warnings that you must be well hydrated in order to minimize the unpleasant side effects of toxins released by dying pathogens. Alkalizing the body with supplements like Megahydrate, alkaline ionized water or pure water with some bicarb added can help with those symptoms even more.

  55. Lori

    When I first read this man (Mr.Nash) story. It did not sound like a grieving man. His story was too well orchestrated and did not sound any sadness except slander and blame. I had my husband read his story and his first impression was the same and suggested “Big Pharma” is behind this story to help squash MMS. Big Pharma is threatened by MMS no doubt. But, maybe it is not, maybe it is someone who is playing a game. I have not started on MMS when I read Mr. Nash’s story. I AM ON MMS AND HAVE TAKEN 2 DROPS, I AM STILL ALIVE and I will continue to take it. God Bless you Jim Humble for your sharing and saving lives.

  56. palpable

    Adam, I cannot ignore the following quote, because it is Jim attacking a grieving man – using a lie.

    “Then if Mr. Nash had of checked just a little bit of the chemistry, because the data is readily available, he would have found that MMS is a natural chemical manufactured by the human immune system to help prevent diseases and to keep the body healthy.”

    Here’s the TRUE part: Oxidizers are produced by immune cells (as are acids and bacteriocidal enzymes).

    Here’s the sneaky LIE part: These tissue destroying substances are NOT released into circulation. Never. It does not happen.
    Oxidizers like CLO2 are stored WITHIN the immune cells.

    The immune cells engulf the organism and expose it to these highly toxic chemicals within special compartmets INSIDE the cell.
    This protects our normal cells from being killed.

    Once in a while these oxidizers are released directly on a bacteria. When this happens your normal cells in the area can get killed – as in collateral damage.

    I’ll state this again – the immune cells do not release chlorine dioxide (or any oxidizng agent) into circulation.

    Want to witness the effects of the immune cells releasing oxidizing agents and enzymes on normal tissue. Ever hear of “flesh eating bacteria”. Wrong name. Because the so-called flesh eating bacteria are NOT eating anything. It’s actually the persons IMMUNE cells over-reacting to the bacteria and destroying healthy tissue. And using chlorine and oxygen (oxidizers) to do it!

    As stated endless times, injested CLO2 will react with normal tissues long before it even passess through the stomach into circulation. That’s what ALL oxidizing agents do.

    I wanted to believe Jim Humble was simply ignorant of physiology. It’s easy to get things mixed up – I know, I’ve taught immunology and microbiology.
    However, Jim seems to know quite a bit of self-serving chemistry, and some rather carefully chosen aspects of physiology.

    1. Gilgamesh

      I agree with Jim Humble, Mr Nash should be investigated, and the people who sold the MMS to them.If they were selling MMS on their cruse vacation, what kind of MMS they sold?,Home made MMS? They made it at home in the basement?
      This story is not right. And it is a false accusation, and Jim should sue this false accuser.

    2. Quantum Girl


      First –

      Before I decided to take MMS, I came across two references which
      seemed compelling to me. Perhaps you could comment on the
      “mechanisms” described by these Scientists, and how they differ
      from what Jim Humble is saying.

      The chlorine is biocidal, yet less effective against pathogens than chlorine dioxide since it is a less powerful oxidant in the ionic form. At the pH of the stomach (pH 3-4) one can expect chlorine dioxide to be produced from the chlorides. This will be a transient phenomenon ultimately yielding chlorine ion again. This will be absorbed by the body, passed through the lower intestinal tract and excreted by the kidneys. If a substantial dose of S.O. has been taken one could hypothesize that the chlorine and chlorine dioxide would act against any pathogenic microorganisms in the body. This may explain the increase in the efficiency of the enzymes known as peroxidases which are a important component in the immune system since they are involved in the oxidation of foreign material such as viruses and toxins. Our experiments with Stabilised Oxygen were modeled after the work of Dr. Lowell P. Hager at the University of Illinois on chlorine and our results support his findings. That Stabilised Oxygen or the chlorine it contains significantly improves the efficiency of the two enzymes chloroperoxidase and peroxidase. The reactions of another model system utilizing myeloperoxidase and peroxidase in the leukocytes is shown to increase the activity of this enzyme.

      Additionally, Dr. Anderson Peoples, Professor of Pharmacology, University of California wrote of the Stabilised Oxygen as follows: I have concluded that as a bactericide and or fungicide, it works primarily on the basis of oxidation, apparently able to supply stimulus to the organism’s own physiological response as well as offering oxidative capacity at a cellular level.

      His report concludes with the following statement :

      We consider the Stabilised Oxygen where utilised in vivo, combines with the natural body functions and immune responses to become an effective medication with virtually no toxicity or side effects.

      Dr. Hesselink’s description of the chemistry of MMS. He endorses
      Jim Humble’s claims completely:

      Second –
      You tell us that you are an educator and you come up with a bunch of
      statements about what can and cannot happen in the body, yet you
      write under a pseudonym and give us no biographical information to
      substantiate the validity of your claims. You sound credible, but hey –
      many clever people can do that.

      I guess it is bothering me that no one has put your claims to rest…I
      think it is important for us to achieve some resolution on what you are
      saying….at least it is important to me.

      Thank you for your reply.

      1. palpable

        To Quantum Girl;

        Jim Humbles’ Dr Hesselinks agrees with me.

        “On The Mechanisms Of Toxicity Of Chlorine Oxides Against Malarial Parasites – An Overview”.
        “This procedure rapidly eliminates malaria and other infectious agents in only one dose. Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) is highly reactive with thiols (RSH), polyamines, purines, certain amino acids and iron, all of which are necessary for the growth and survival of pathogenic microbes.”

        ME: Guess What? All the above molecules (thiols (RSH), polyamines, purines, certain amino acids and iron) are found in the human body and are just as necessary for our survival and growth! Therefore CLO2 must oxidize our tissues. That’s what I’ve been saying all along.
        Jim Humbles Doctor is stating what I have stated over and over.
        Oxidizers react with all organic molecules. We share very class of organic molecules with bacteria.
        Jim says CLO2 searches out only bad molecules. His doctor disagrees.

        BERG QUOTE:
        “That Stabilised Oxygen or the chlorine it contains significantly improves the efficiency of the two enzymes chloroperoxidase and peroxidase. The reactions of another model system utilizing myeloperoxidase and peroxidase in the leukocytes is shown to increase the activity of this enzyme”

        ME: I like this one. Its actually proposing a mechanism. The proposed mechanisms is immune stimulation. Causing your immune cells to make bacteriocidal substances. However the mechanism is still not really spelled out. In his full article he states these are theoretical mechanisms.
        “However, the available data on chlorite is limited. Therefore, only the three aforementioned mechanisms have been proposed.”

        ME: One problem is that this particular article is 21 years old. I saw no follow ups on use or studies. If this was such a great thing, why didn’t this prominent researcher follow up? Truly curious.
        As I’ve explained before, The hypochlorous acid (MMS2) Humble is now touting is kept within immune cells – it is not in circulation as jim has alluded to.

        So nothing has changed for me. No one has put my claims (and read them carefully – on the other blog) to rest.
        The below are a few of Humbles stated claims and they are false (especially the first one):
        1)That CLO2 can search out and oxidized harmful cells/organisms without also oxidizing your cells/tissues
        2)Cancers cells are anaerobic
        3)Viruses are anaerobic
        4)Bad bacteria are only anaerobic

        Who I am, or who Jim is, or who you are, is irrelevant.
        Scientific arguments stand on the science, not the individual.
        The only reason I gave any biographical info, was because most posters were attacking my motivations, rather than addressing my points.

  57. Cecilia

    Lots to think about lately. I was shocked to read this, but it doesn’t stop me from utilizing MMS and taking responsibility for my use. I also participate in sweat lodges, and am stunned to hear about 3 deaths in Sedona. From reading about that sweat lodge, I believe it was a misuse of an ancient ritual of purification, and amounted to a dare to push your limits. My Native American friends would not recognize that situation as a purification lodge. Responsibility and accountability is important, and it sounds like Mr. Nash is looking for a scapegoat and found it.

    1. Gilgamesh

      In my opinion there is no prof, that anyone died from MMS, and without definite prof this is is falls accusation.We dont know preexisting conditions,and people selling MMS on their cruse vacations? Who are these people?, and where are they? And I think Jim Humble should sue the falls accusers.

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