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Wolf to Henhouse: “Just Say ‘No’ to MMS!”

FDA Warnings
Who is there to warn the public against these?

 

The interest in, and use of “MMS,” which Jim Humble has recently dubbed, Master Mineral Supplement, continues, as the United Kingdom has publicly denounced the use of this product. Even the often reliable Wikipedia, which usually presents the appearance of unbiased information, now presents an entry on MMS that is a boldface lie.

A story in the BBC recently reported that the Food Standards Agency (FSA) praised a 15 year-old with Crohn’s disease for alerting it to MMS. Now chlorine dioxide, which is generated by using MMS (along with a citric acid “activator”), could in fact, help someone with Crohn’s disease.

“Why?”, you might ask.

It’s pretty simple. Anyone who has Crohn’s symptoms is going to have an inner system that is out of balance. I believe we can agree on this.

Balance is synonymous with health. When an individual not healthy, they will not be in balance. Yet, if balance is restored, health returns.

Most current medical treatment methods don’t restore balance. Not only that, most current living methods compromise balance on many levels. One of the most fundamental places where imbalance, and hence, disease is started, is in our water.

Chemicals are foundation of modern water treatment.
Chemicals are foundation of modern water treatment.

Current methods of water treatment are most effective in giving us water that looks good, but are ineffective in providing water that is actually healthy. In fact, water that comes to the tap, as well as many bottled waters are touted to be safe, are actually highly chemicalized, with chlorine (a bleach), fluoride, ammonia, and many other inorganic materials. And yet, in light of the urgent warnings against using MMS, the cumulative effects of this ongoing, daily intake of inorganic information is given no consideration anywhere in the current medical treatment matrix. According to the authorities, the bleach called MMS shouldn’t be used, but the bleach that is being used, without any input or consent by the public, is okay.

And if you don’t already know it, chlorine and chlorine dioxide demonstrate very different chemical behavior.

Humans are ingesting a multitude of inorganic and synthetic chemicals daily in going about the business of living life. A significant portion of this is through ingesting chlorinated water, about which no warnings or calls for reductions are being made.

When it combines with other materials, chlorine spins off another group of chemicals called, trihalomethanes (THMs). They are made up of chloroform, bromodichloromethane, dibromochloromethane, and bromoform. All of these are known carcinogens, which mean they can increase the likelihood of cancer. Imagine that this IS going on today, every day, each year, and for decades.

Look at some of the many pathologies linked to iodine deficiency, which is estimated to affect 2 billion people. Iodine is a natural antibacterial, and needed to produce the thyroid hormone. Potential problems include hypothyroidism, goiter, mental retardation and birth defects, and breast cancer.

Iodine is a member of a group of elements on the Periodic Table called halogens, as are chlorine and fluoride. However, it is the only essential trace element among them. In other words, iodine is essential for health. The other halogens are, in fact, harmful. Could it be that getting so much incidental chlorine and fluoride through water intake leaves less room for iodine, which we admittedly get too little of?

Yet, there are no warnings or suggestions forthcoming from the watchdog agencies of this dire situation or that we should adopt other methods.

Are you hearing me on this? Chlorination produces byproducts that are known carcinogens. Yet, it continues to be the “disinfectant of choice” among water treatment agencies around the world. According to americanchemistry.com, the chlorine industry “contributes” $46 billion to the North American economy annually. Included in their list their contributions:

  • Clean drinking water
  • 93 percent of all life-saving pharmaceuticals
  • 86 percent of crop protection compounds

“Clean” drinking water is not necessarily safe drinking water. Safe drinking water will actually hydrate you and reduce toxicity. Clean water, as it is presently treated, can actually increase the body’s toxic load.

While it may not kill you on ingestion, ingesting chemically treated, i.e., chlorinated water will slowly and steadily deteriorate health. One exception, based on its known chemical behavior, is chlorine dioxide, which actually decreases the toxic presence in the environment when taken in appropriate amounts.

Drinking is only one of the ways that we ingest water, and not even the major way. The main way that we intake water is through showering and bathing. It is absorbed directly through the skin. When water is chlorinated, we turn our showers into gas chambers, open our pores, and step in.

That is, unless we take conscious, and heretofore unconventional measures to counteract the effects of our “advanced” ways. Based on the results that people have reported after using MMS, it appears to be doing something beneficial. And yet, none of the “protective agencies” around the world have seen fit to investigate for right doing, so convinced they appear to be that something “wrong” is being done.

Chlorine isn’t the only chemical culprit that we have developed a blind eye and deaf ear to. Fluoride is right up there, having gained a privileged general perception as beneficial; so good in fact, that it is put in water, toothpaste, and supplement tablets, including some vitamins.

Is this an accurate picture of fluoride?
Is this an accurate representation of fluoride's effects?

Fluoride is a neurotoxin. Taking it on a regular basis can compromise health. Long-standing evidence bears the statement out. A 1992 report published by the New Jersey Department of Health found that bone cancer in male children was two to seven times greater in areas where water was fluoridated. Another study linked fluoridation of water to uterine cancer deaths.

There is no scientific or experiential evidence to support the FDA and FSA’s claims against MMS. It’s chemical behavior suggests that, if scaled down to sufficiently enough, it should reduce toxicity, and if that is done, health should improve. That is what has happened, and perhaps why the world is not being warned against using MMS.

We could go on for days listing the chemicals that, on a daily basis, are routinely ingested, either through water, in gaseous form, in our foods and beverages, or via airborne inhalation, which ultimately cause cellular stress and eventually metabolic dysfunction within the body. Not only are no actions being taken toward warning the public, reducing and replacing these methods, the remedies that we are offered to counteract the effects of these products — and are incessantly admonished to “ask our doctors” about — are also more chemicals.

Health care costs are rising, yet disease onset is coming earlier in life, and staying longer. Yet, MMS has been deemed by these and other “experts,” a dangerous bleach.

I’m inclined to believe that the 15-year-old with Crohn’s disease who, if we are to believe the story, notified the authorities about MMS, is most likely not aware of these nuances of its chemistry. The greater darkness, however, is awareness of his own chemistry which, even after several decades or even a lifetime, is a darkness shared by the general public.

The FSA and FDA should know better. They should be letting the youngster, and the public know about MMS, in the context of how it can actually help his young body reduce its toxic load. But then, that would mean dumping all the chemical stuff they have been supporting, and having to admit that they have been wolves guarding the henhouse and all its chicks.

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147 Thoughts to “Wolf to Henhouse: “Just Say ‘No’ to MMS!””

  1. I just found the following comment on a German forum:
    How dangerous is MMS in comparison to other medication?
    1) Take an unrealistic amount of MMS to prove how dangerous it is…
    2) Do not mention a similar approved medication …
    3) Avoid mentioning the deadly outcome from the use of some of those medication…
    Hi…hi…some members here are doing very well according to this anti-MMS-rule…
    oh I forgot, the comment goes on:
    Such tactics make MMS only more attractive to me, and they archive the opposite from what they want to achieve!
    I know what this gentlemen is talking about. Exactly my sentiments! 😉

  2. TV

    Industrial bleach Vs. CHEMO (Mustard gas)

    MMS has not killed anyone!

    CHEMO kills almost all in 5 years, and kills their looks within 3 weeks, causes terrible pain, stomach upset and they wish they were dead.

    Dr. “C” says that only 3% of the people survive the AMA’s treatment of cancer, while without treatment almost 30% of cancer goes away all by itself. He has a verified cancer cure rate of 92.3% by healing 35,000 people of cancer. Dr. Leonard Coldwell is my friend and this statement has been verified by statistics.

    I’m an energy healer — Reiki Master. 86% of all disease is caused by stress, anxiety, tension etc., allowing energy blockages to build up in an individual. These can be cleared. Check out http://reikiranch.com and you will find free classes and lots of information on staying healthy. Once the energy is restored in a person they have even more energy to heal themselves.

    1. Well said TV, but beware. When I admitted to be a Reiki Master, I was called by those AAMF a Quack. This is why this is not only about MMS but all alternatives…not approved by the FDA… 😉

      1. Well Monika, that is because Reiki is a form of quackery!

      2. I was wondering how long it would take till you come up again with your bad manners, abusive comments and stupid remarks Rhys. … and your friend you brought along, is not much better, writing FAKE REVIEWS on Amazon…
        Shot himself in his own feet however, just like you did on YouTube… 😉

  3. Gilgamesh

    Noodlemaz

    You will never see cancer virus in a modern microscope. If you want to see the activity of live cancer viruses, you would need a special, Royal Rife microscope, there maybe one locked away in a British museum. Rife identified 4 different kind of viruses for cancer, and they could change to bacteria, and back to a virus. Rife also discovered a cure for cancer, and he was curing cancer, and other diseases in the 1930,s. The Rife cancer cure was a 100%. But all his work was systematically suppressed.
    And now, there is MMS, that some people try to suppress, by a lot of misinformation.
    In my opinion, anyone, from ignorance, foolishness, knowingly, or unknowingly, or deliberately would suppress and deny anything that would cure, and save people’s lives, In my opinion this would be very, very wrong, if a lot of people would die as a result.

      1. Paul Morgan

        Gilgamesh – you spout yet another load of conspiracy theory nonsense. It seems that Rife may have had some genuinely good ideas about microscopy and optics, but it’s not clear as to why he thought he had invented something that could see live viruses optically – he didn’t. There also appear to be inconsistencies in reports as to how many microscopes he made and how many remain in existence. This is why the Rife microscope made it into the mainstream.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rife
        Then again, Wikipedia is part of the conspiracy – er, no.
        As for his “cancer cure”, this was misappropriated and distorted into a load of quack nonsense. I note in particular the conviction and imprisonment of James Folsom for his part in selling “Rife Machines” in various guises:-
        http://www.justice.gov/usao/cas/press/cas10-0208-Folsum.pdf
        Unusually, there may be some scientific basis to Rife’s theory on the use of energy frequencies and there is ongoing research in this area:-
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672058/#B15
        I would appreciate the views of some real cancer scientists about this as it is outside of my field of expertise.
        However, it seems Rife himself never claimed to be able to cure cancer. Thus, typical of “alt med practitioners” his work has been distorted and misappropriated with unjustifiable leaps of faith made.
        Gilgamesh – the term that comes to mind when assessing your rants is “crank magnetism”:-
        http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism
        http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/06/crank_magnetism_1.php
        http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2008/06/crank-magnetism.html
        http://sciblogs.co.nz/bioblog/2010/09/27/evidence-supporting-an-hypothesis-of-crank-magnetism/
        Scientists on this blog find it so easy to rebuff your ridiculous posts as they are based on multiple delusions – false beliefs. Scientists will continue to contribute to blogs like this in order to give the weak, vulnerable, desperate and gullible the evidence-based viewpoints as opposed to the quackery so often promoted here, such as MMS.

  4. Paul Morgan

    At the end of the day, it matters little what people believe to be true or not. The only way to establish the truth is through the gathering of evidence. That evidence needs corroboration or substantiation.
    We know for a fact that when you mix MMS as instructed it produces chlorine dioxide. We know for a fact that chlorine dioxide is a very good bug-killer in vitro. We also know that there are many companies that use chlorine dioxide as a bleach – therefore, by definition, it is an industrial bleach. For example, http://www.paperonweb.com/bleach.htm
    QED
    What we have not seen evidence for is that it is safe to ingest MMS. We do have studies on the use of chlorine dioxide as a water purifier. We also know that by the time water purified by such methods reaches the consumer, there is no chlorine dioxide left, so it is safe to drink.
    We have no credible evidence to show MMS to be effective for any of the conditions that it advocates (not least “Bishop” Humble) claim it to be, as there is nothing published and independently verified. All that is ever posted on discussion groups like this is the same old irrelevant scientific papers (and even they are extremely few) and the same old anecdotes and claims.
    The challenge to the MMS advocates therefore remains the same – provide real, credible, verifiable evidence. I and the scientific community are not interested in beliefs unless supported by evidence.

    1. “At the end of the day, it matters little what people believe to be true or not.

      That’s YOUR belief.

      YOU have seen no credible evidence of effectiveness, even though the evidence that has been shown, would suggest that further study is warranted, not total dismissal for lack of credible evidence. ANYONE can study, if they are of a mind to, even YOU Paul. Scientists too.

      You don’t have to take my word, or try to smear it. Figure it out for yourself.

      That’s the line you don’t appear willing to cross.

    2. migual

      Not true Lord Morgan, CLO2 is now sold under patent as the most effective water purifier available (seeing as iodine is now banned in the UK). The mixing instructions are the same as mms and can be bought from outdoors shops. You consume it in the same way as mms as in after three minutes time and mixed with water.

      1. Except that no-one tells you to consume it until it makes you feel nauseous. You’re just supposed to use the water purification drops in a very dilute form to purify water, not to drink it by itself.

        But here’s a question for you: given that you can indeed by chlorine dioxide as a water purification treatment, and that it’s much cheaper than buying MMS, why would anyone buy MMS?

  5. Richard

    I’m god and lots of other people think they are god to, so by your standards of proof it must be true and only not known about because of some conspiracy. I wonder what other truths we can prove in this way

  6. Paul Morgan

    Phaelosopher – clearly you have zero understanding of cancer research. There are many scientists (real people with real scientific qualifications) around the world conducting research into the causes of cancer and looking for ways to reduce the risk of developing cancer. This work goes hand in hand with research to find treatments – real, effective treatments, not spurious “miracle” cures like MMS.
    http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-cancer/causes-symptoms/causes/what-causes-cancer
    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/causes
    Given the lack of real, credible, verifiable evidence about MMS it is difficult to regard it as something other than another quack cure to go alongside Tullio Simoncini’s sodium bicarbonate therapy. Simoncini has, of course, been convicted of manslaughter :-
    http://www.123hjemmeside.dk/cancer_is_not_a_fungus/
    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=113061

    How long before an MMS advocate is similarly convicted in a criminal court? In the UK and the US, the required standard of proof for a criminal conviction is “beyond reasonable doubt”. Given the current state of evidence, death resulting from following the advice of an MMS advocate to drink bleach would result in criminal conviction.
    If you wish to drink bleach yourself, feel free – just don’t complain that you weren’t warned. If you continue to push MMS and a death results, expect the full force of the law.

    1. Paul… rehash all you want. The cancer researchers are producing miserable results. Defend them all you want. They CLEARLY haven’t succeeded in reducing the risk, nor mitigating the disease once it comes up.

      In the time it has taken you to write this diatribe, MANY deaths have occurred as a result of present cancer TREATMENT.

      Do YOU treat people with more poison when their bodies are already saturated with poison? Do YOU think that this is the way to solve their problem?

      I wouldn’t wish prosecution on you, except if you knew your approach was not going to help and gave it any way.

      People are responsible for their actions, *and* their thoughts, Paul.

      What you wish on another in hatred and dis-integrity, you guarantee for yourself.

      Best wishes,

      Adam…

      1. JustMe

        Hello Adam, I’m new here. Can you please explain to me why some comments have a REPLY function under it, and others have not ?
        Keep up the good work, I KNOW MMS works! I need no more proof and just feel sorry for those who don’t know better.
        I wish them well, with whatever type of medication they are happy with. I’m happy with MMS and have never felt better! NOBODY is going to take this away from me.

      2. Thank you, and welcome!

        Can’t say I can answer your question. If I were so inclined, I’d turn off the reply abilities of some posters, but then, it’s better to see ém for where they are; like it or not.

        Best wishes,

        Adam…

      3. Adam.

        You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

        Again, as someone in cancer research (not funded by big pharma but by charity), I feel obliged to point out the flaws in what you say.

        1. Read this http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/
        http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/mortality/

        You can pick a particular cancer or look by country.

        Depending on the type of cancer, many have incidence rates that are increasing (due to the ageing population and lifestyle changes, e.g. melanoma) but mortality (death from the disease) actually decreasing, or remaining the same (so a relative decrease in mortality).

        Some cancers are becoming less common e.g. lung, where lifestyle is improving.
        Prevention is a massive element of fighting cancer.

        2. It is important to understand that cancer is not one disease, but a type of disease. Just like ‘virus’ isn’t, the causes are similar but the diseases themselves very different depending on what the causes are, where the disease occurs etc.

        For example outcomes for breast cancer are now very good, considering how common it is; due to many things such as ease of diagnosis (the breast being external tissue in which abnormalities are more easily identified), good screening programmes, successful drugs (tamoxifen, aromatase inhibitors etc.) and fantastic advances in surgical technique.

        Compare this with something like pancreatic cancer where the organ is deep inside the body and symptoms do not occur typically until very late stages in the disease, so that when it is found very little can be done to prolong life beyond a few more years after diagnosis. Screening is difficult, treatments are minimally successful, but work is ongoing. I know some groups in my department who are,for example, working on screening via urine samples – looking for proteins that pass into the blood only when cancer is present and before it gets to late-stage metastatic disease.

        ‘Cancer’ is not one disease but hundreds.

        3. By its nature, cancer requires aggressive treatment. The body’s cells are usually controlled by the genes, they don’t grow too much, just the right amount. But this can go wrong; either because of inherent gene faults (passed down through the generations; inherited mutations) or during our lifetimes both naturally because of age and the environment but also exacerbated by things like poor diet, smoking and other atmospheric carcinogens, etc.

        Cells growing too much need to be killed. The way you do that is by finding a way to stop them growing and/or killing them. Chemotherapy is indeed often poison; it must be to do its job of killing cancer cells. Most cells in the body don’t divide in the adult, but some do – like in hair follicles and the gut lining. That’s why chemo makes people sick; there are some unavoidable side-effects, but people are constantly working on new ways to specifically target cancer cells without touching normal cells.

        It’s the same rationale behind your supposed MMS mechanism, but in reality it requires a lot more work than throwing some bleach down your oesophagus.

        Cancer is not poison; it is normal cells gone bad. ‘Toxin’ is a non-descript term, it means nothing, it is nothing to do with this disease.

        If you can’t understand, or even bother to try to understand, these basic cancer concepts, how dare you presume to lecture anyone about how disingenuous their approach is. Without basic knowledge you cannot hope to teach people more, your words are empty and your conspiracy-based rants useless.

      4. Noodlemaz,

        You decide where your level of acceptability is for you, and I’ll decide what they are for me. If I didn’t have my own opinion I could simply be quiet and send people to you. We agree what cancer is not poison, but saying it’s “cells gone bad,” is part of the fairy tale that keeps the cure just out of reach. Toxin is a VERY CLEAR TERM, and means EVERYTHING. I’ll even define it to you.

        A “toxin” is ANYTHING, that is NON-LIVING. It is anything that has no vibrational and hence, *informational* corollary within the body. All the cells and microorganisms in the body, that construct, maintain, and repair it, have an “instruction set” that they work from. That is how your body comes into being, and stays that way during the course of your life (mine too).

        A “toxin” is anything that is introduced into the that does not register vibrationally or energetically. It will be responded to as alien, and LIFE will respond to the NON-LIVING. Chemicals that upset the natural balance of the body, are also toxic. The vast list of expensive, patented, pharmaceutical-based chemicals that our society has accepted so fully as to totally ignore their contributory and cumulative effects, upset the body’s balance. I can name a few… chlorination and fluoridation in water, aspartame and MSG in foods, thimerosol in vaccines, mercury… the list goes on and on. Yet, your “peers” seem to be blind to these factors, and are not questioning what might happen if they were eliminated rather than perpetuated.

        Your bias is almost laughable. If you really are interested in ending the cancer scam, you’d stop defending the deplorable statistics and be open to looking for solutions together, rather than dismissing others who don’t subscribe to your “school” (of thought).

      5. Am I missing something here, or does that mean that MMS is a toxin by your definition?

      6. Yes, you are missing something, but MMS is not a toxin. Chlorine dioxide produces no toxicity of its own. However, in the process of inactivating certain viruses, bacteria, fungi, yeast, mold, and spores, some toxicity can be introduced into the bloodstream as it is being flushed out the system. The net result of using MMS as recommended is to LOWER one’s toxic load, improving overall balance. The net result of using antibacterial and antivirals, is generally to increase one’s toxic load, and sustain imbalance.

      7. Stephen J Henstridge

        @Phaelosopher

        You are talking complete and utter nonsense.

      8. Paul Morgan

        There you go again repeating the same old rubbish and showing your ignorance on cancer. You clearly believe that you are right when it comes to cancer survival rates and cancer treatment when there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise:-
        http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/survival/latestrates/
        and
        http://www.cancerrecovery.org.uk/site/PageServer?pagename=Cancer_Statistics
        and
        http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=861
        and
        http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jul/12/cancer-survival-rates-doubled

        Of course, all these reports must be wrong, because you believe them to be wrong. When someone holds a belief that is incorrect – especially when the evidence shows it to be incorrect – that person is said to be deluded and the incorrect belief itself is called a delusion. In that respect, you are deluded because you hold many delusions.
        It is not I that has to worry about my conscience when deciding what therapies to give my patients as I adhere to the principle of “First do no harm”. This is at the core of being a doctor, but of course there are exceptions (e.g. Harold Shipman). Occasionally, doctors get “lost” and stray from this principle, either through delusions or some desire to seek fame, notoriety and/or financial reward that has escaped them previously.
        http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/quackpro.html

      9. OK, so let me see if I have this right:

        All chemicals made by pharmaceutical companies are toxins, but MMS is not a toxin, despite also being a non-living chemical.

        Is that how you see it?

        I gather this may be more of a British English expression that may be in less common use where you come from, so apologies if this is unfamiliar, but that sounds like total bollocks.

  7. Paul Morgan

    Phaelosopher – if you think that you can establish superiority in an argument by showing disrespect to the qualifications, degrees and doctorates that people have spent many years studying and researching for, then you are sadly mistaken. Is the problem here that you lack the necessary scientific background and qualifications to put your side of the argument from a position of knowledge and authority? Perhaps you would care to inform the visitors to this blog of your qualifications and scientific background that may help people to take you more seriously? I found a brief CV here:-
    http://www.phaelos.com/adam.html
    It seems to me that you are clueless as to how and why the scientific process acts to continually strive to improve our lives and understanding of our world. Without science, you certainly wouldn’t be able to create and maintain this blog as computers wouldn’t exist.

    1. This little “UNQUALIFIED,” “clueless” guy sure has your attention, huh?

      I don’t mean to disrespect the value of research, degrees, and doctorates, but if you’re saying that a mind should be closed to anyone that doesn’t have one, then you’re not using common sense. I will listen to a child or anyone else to FEEL truth. You are clearly saying that you have no ability to FEEL TRUTH. Truth is no limited to people who have degrees. In fact, the degree becomes the “Seal of Approval” that says your mind belongs to someone ELSE… IT AIN’T YOURS ANYMORE, AND YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW IT.

      Thanks for the plug, Paul.

      🙂

    2. Sorry Paul, I misspoke. Of course you have the ABILITY to feel truth. Everyone does. You’re just not willing to do it.

      Truth is no limited to your domain. Falsehood is not excluded from your domain either.

      A~

      1. Paul Morgan

        More delusional thoughts and insults to people who have spent many years studying, researching and devoting their time for the betterment of mankind.
        The reason your blog has my attention is because it contains large sections debating MMS. As we have seen, MMS is an industrial bleach hazardous to human health. People on this group are promoting its use as a “miracle” cure for a wide range of conditions ranging from viral infections to cancer to baldness to autism. This is in spite of a complete lack of evidence of benefit and plenty of evidence that it is harmful. Would you like to put this in front of a Grand Jury and see what they say?
        Clearly, you have no credible arguments to present so you have to resort to name-calling. Name-calling may work in the school yard, but you’re dealing with grown-ups now, so all it does is expose your desperation.

  8. JustMe

    MMS and homeopathy works, whether you believe it or not!
    Says WHO? Says me!
    I know! I’m past just believing!
    Opinions of none-users are unimportant to me, regardless who they are or if they have a title in front of their name. A title does not make anybody less human than I am, and humans make mistakes. Science has proven to be wrong many times over…so what is new?
    Anybody who does not speak from experience DOES NOT KNOW, but he/she just assumes, guessing or believes!
    That is where we differ!
    But it is everybody’s right to do and think as they please!
    So lets agree to disagree and move on.
    And I agree, MMS is here to stay one way or the other! Take it or leave it!
    People who sit in glasshouses should stop trowing stones!

    1. Paul Morgan

      JustMe,
      There is no EVIDENCE that MMS works. What any one person or a group of people believe isn’t evidence – it’s religion. Religion is not evidence. Whether you like it or not, MMS is being exposed for the scam that it is. Responsible organisations across the world have been made aware of this dangerous poison – an industrial bleach hazardous to human health. They are clamping down on this evil scam and the quacks and charlatans responsible for promoting and selling MMS.
      All you have done in your post is rehash the same inane rubbish that all the MMS advocates come out with. If you have any actual real, credible,verifiable evidence then please supply it so that it can be subjected to scientific scrutiny. The problem is, of course, is that there is no evidence.

      1. And all you have done Paul, is rehash your same tired, limited, boilerplate, and FALSE reply. You have no EXPERIENCE with MMS, and attempt to discount the EXPERIENCE of those who have. SHAME ON YOU!

        APOLOGIZE!

        LOL!!!

      2. JustMe

        People who got healthy, including me and my friends, are enough evidence for me that it works.
        I don’t know you, so what authority do you have to preach to me. Have you tried it? If not, which part of my comment above did you not understand or read?
        I repeat:
        OPINIONS of none-users are unimportant to me, regardless who they are or if they have a title in front of their name.
        Off course MMS has a bad reputation lately and we all know WHO is to blame for that, don’t we?
        Nice try, but keep on trying!
        If @ first you don’t succeed, try, try again!
        Good luck!

      3. Phaelosopher, personal experience is meaningless. Mine or your experiences may be atypical or subject to all sorts of cognitive biases. More to the point, they are impossible for other people to verify, so we don’t even know if what someone claims as a personal experience actually happened the way they describe. What is important to determining whether something works is properly conducted clinical trials. None has been done for MMS, so Paul is completely justified in saying what he says.

        Clearly, you disagree. You clearly believe that you are unqualified to comment on something if you don’t have personal experience.

        When you think about it, that’s a pretty ridiculous position to take. If you disagree, please answer these 2 questions:

        1. What is your opinion on whether recreational heroin injection is a good idea?

        2. What personal experience do you have of recreational heroin injection?

      4. Why are you defending Paul? Your defense doesn’t change anything he’s said.

        This subject isn’t about heroin injection. NO one has reported, shown any evidence of, or made any claims that heroin injection has helped people. Your non-sequitur is not relevant.

      5. @phaelosopher:

        I used to suffer from terrible monkeypox. Then I started shooting up heroin, and all my previous symptoms have gone. It’s a miracle cure!

        If you’ve never taken heroin, do you have any basis on which to dispute this?

      6. Is seems you still suffer from a blindness that prevents you from making an intelligent point.

        Your sarcastic and inappropriate example has no relevance here.

      7. Yeah, actually some people do claim health benefits for heroin. Quite apart from WriterJames, who found it cured his monkeypox, there are other people out there, such as this forum:
        http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=37491

        According to that site, heroin has many benefits.

        So, my question remains: do you have any personal experience of shooting up heroin? Because if you don’t, that would make you, by your logic, unqualified to hold an opinion on whether heroin is a good thing or a bad thing.

        Do you consider yourself qualified to have an opinion on heroin?

      8. You claimed to have benefited from a chemical substance, and people called you flawed in your reasoning.

        I claimed to have benefited from a particular chemical substance, and you called me sarcastic and inappropriate.

        How come you get to dismiss my claim about the medical efficacy of a treatment, but the rules are different when it’s the other way around?

      9. Yours was sarcastic and inappropriate because, first of all, it was not true.

        You may not believe what I am saying is true, but I can speak of it without sarcasm or trying to sensationalize. I have spoken to may others who have had their own experience with MMS, which they joyfully share, oftentimes after months and years of believing in and taking the traditional treatments that you are defending.

        I have not camped myself on your blog to tell you how wrong you are, or sell your readers on my way of thinking. Yet you and your cohorts come in insulting and indignant, as though you own the only truth there is.

        If you truly want to help people, you’ll be true with them, not insulting, not fear mongering. You’ll respect where they are, and what they’ve experienced. I’ve seen none of that from your group.

        Best wishes,

        Adam…

  9. Paul Morgan

    It doesn’t really matter how many times that certain people on this forum try to deny the facts, those of us with scientific, skeptical minds will continue to try to educate those whose minds haven’t been filled with conspiracy theory rubbish.
    The ingredients of MMS are sodium chlorite solution and citric acid.
    Facts about sodium chlorite :-
    http://www.madehow.com/Volume-6/Sodium-Chlorite.html
    Notice this is a different site from Wikipedia as there are people here who think that Wikipedia is part of the “Big Pharma Conspiracy” – it isn’t, and there is no convincing evidence of such a conspiracy, only delusions.
    So, there we have it. Sodium chlorite IS an industrial bleach. Period. When mixed with (citric) acid, it makes chlorine dioxide. Even more gobsmackingly stupid when it comes to ingestion, sodium chlorite has a greenish tint because it contains residues of either iron or cadmium oxide. Yes – cadmium oxide, a potent carcinogen. Inhaling cadmium oxide vapour may be fatal.
    For more information on sodium chlorite, also see:-
    http://www.scotmas.com/WhatWeDo/ChlorineDioxide/tabid/82/language/en-GB/Default.aspx?gclid=CIHwupry8KQCFU0_4wodXHF82Q
    and
    http://www.scotmas.com/what-we-do/chlorine-dioxide/background-faqs/regulatory-environment.aspx?language=en-gb
    So, the facts are inescapable. MMS is nothing more than industrial bleach.
    If you think different, show the evidence.

    1. Maria

      I think that you are referring to your agenda, which means being paid through your kid, that it is despicable way to make money “sir”.

      Your son should be thinking about school, not fame!

      How come you guys can sing the praises of “the establishment”, the FDA, the Pharma, etc. Ever think about THAT?

      You should be focusing on educating your son instead of have him focused on something that only concerns adult people enforcing their freedom to choose.

      Instead you are raising a diminished human being who doesn’t respect the opinion of others that do not agree with what his father taught him.

      “Amazing young man+ worthless human being” .

      I pity you and your son, this is no way to make money, go and have a life instead of attacking people on the internet,

      1. Paul Morgan

        Maria – you have shown yourself to deluded in other forum postings and are doing so again with this laughable rant. When you’ve actually got something useful or constructive to say, people may actually listen to you. However, all you do is post irrelevant nonsense. You were asked about your position in the Guatemalan government – no response. You also previously claimed that pro-MMS articles had been published in various Guatemalan newspapers. You were asked to provide the details of when and where these articles were published – no response.
        You were asked to explain why you use multiple names (Maria Paiz, Mariluz Paiz, Maria Ramirez) – no response. Finally, you were challenged to explain why if you are in Guatemala how come your IP address is in Florida – no response.
        No money being made here, unlike Jim Humble (see http://www.mmseurope.info where it states clearly “We donate to Jim Humble”).
        Maria – step out of your delusions and get back to the real world.

      2. JustMe

        You write:
        Your son should be thinking about school, not fame!
        And I thought I was the only one thinking this…

        Relax Maria, not everybody considers the M&S-Bible to be the gospel truth, you know…

    2. ProstheticHead

      Just wanted to back you up on the ingredients and properties of MMS.

      Drinking ClO2 solution (what you get if you acidify sodium chlorite solution) is a pretty bad idea – it’s a fairly potent oxidising agent, will irritate and damage tissues in your mouth, throat and GI tract. It can cause nausea, vomiting, GI pain, diarrhoea, dehydration. These effects can be very dangerous in people who are already ill. Dehydration of this sort, while simple, can and does kill people. This is just what is meant to be in it – you might rinse and gargle it in very dilute form for gingivitis but you wouldn’t want to drink it, especially not as concentrated as is prescribed for MMS.

      The we get on to the impurities, ‘MMS’ does not apply the same standards of purity as medical grade products – it is likely to contain a lot of potentially harmful impurities. Various chlorine by-products which may be carcinogenic or toxic. Heavy metals (Cadmium oxide is especially unpleasant stuff) with all their toxicity and cumulative effects due to difficulty of excreting them. It could really have trace amounts of anything in it – I can’t tell and neither can you without properly conducted testing.

      Add to this that there is no compelling theory predicting that it should work or properly conducted trials providing evidence that it does. So by taking it you are ingesting one known poison and entering the lottery of unknown poisons for no real hope of any benefit.

      ps:
      I’m a research chemist (PhD), in case anyone cares about my ‘background’. I am NOT paid or funded in any way by any pharmaceutical company – I work in oxidation catalyst research funded by the British taxpayer.

      1. Like Paul needed your equally biased contribution. You are reciting… regurgitating actually, chapter and verse, from the FDA press release bible. You speak in generalities, not from knowledge. Chlorine byproducts can indeed be carcinogenic. And you don’t seem to care about the fact that 100’s of millions of people are presently being chlorinated every day, yourself most likely included. You don’t seem to realize that chlorine dioxide demonstrates very different chemical behavior than chlorine.

        It’s just a job to you, eh? Truth isn’t important.

        I’m less and less impressed by the term “PhD”. Simple means “I think as I am told (by my ‘peers’).”

      2. ProstheticHead

        @phaelosopher
        If what I’ve said is very similar to what the FDA have said that may be because the statements are backed up by reproducible observations. If something is true then when people test it they should come up with the same answer. Do you deny that it can cause the side effects I or the FDA listed (nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, dehydration, pain, inflammation)?

        “You speak in generalities, not from knowledge.” – I’m not sure exactly what this is supposed to mean. If I were to be less general and more specific it would require rather a lot of resources. For example – to be more specific about the impurities I would need some samples of different ‘MMS’ products and access to a range of spectrograph equipment and analytical tools. To test for any effectiveness I would need to conduct large clinical trials (unethical since it is known to be toxic and we have no reason to think it is effective).

        I am well aware that almost everyone is exposed to small quantities of chlorine by-products constantly, they are also constantly exposed to low levels of background radiation. So what? This does not mean that deliberately exposing yourself to more is a good idea.

        I am very well aware of the difference between the chemical properties of chlorine and chlorine dioxide. If MMS contained an equivalent concentration of chlorine rather than ClO2 then anyone who tried taking it would most likely be dead or seriously ill after the 1st dose and it would not be being promoted as a ‘miracle’.

        “It’s just a job to you, eh? Truth isn’t important.” – What gave you that idea? In fact, I see working to get closer to truth as my job.

        As for the disregard for qualifications – ok, that’s not a problem, you don’t have to believe something just because it’s said by someone with letters after their name. I most certainly don’t. You should however acknowledge that studying something in great detail by a combination of reading, experimentation and theoretical prediction helps you to get at the truth. Scientists don’t ‘think as they are told by their peers’, they will read each others research for inspiration and information – and to mercilessly pull it apart if they can. Science at its best is a mutual information-checking and sharing system. Not all scientists do this all the time, we are all fallible humans and some of us aren’t even very nice or honest humans – just as with any group. However, no other system has ever been devised which gets better tangible results.

      3. “If something is true then when people test it they should come up with the same answer.

        We agree. The “people” can be any person who is willing to consider the postulate, test it, and report the result. This has been done in the case of MMS, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this exchange. You simply choose to ignore or dismiss the results reported by people who have tested it, and listen to the warnings issued by people who have not.

        You speak of what is unethical in testing, and speak another untruth in the process. A large clinical trial is not necessary in order to discern that MMS works. Sodium chlorite is a naturally occurring salt. MMS is a diluted solution of that salt. When it is used, it is further diluted. There is no toxicity involved at all. You have the gall to misrepresent the use of a natural salt, and say there’s no reason to think it’ll be effective.

        I agree with your definition of science, but when you dismiss the positive results reported by individuals and defend the negative misinformation put out by the authorities, you have no credibility. Knowledge is neither defined, nor bound, by titles, nor is it expanded by maintaining a closed mind.

      4. ProstheticHead

        The people doing the testing can indeed be any people willing to do it, with or without letters after their name – what is important is their methodology and awareness of its possible flaws. I think we might strongly disagree over what constitutes a valid testing method. Collecting incidents of people who report feeling better after doing something they have been told will make them feel better is not a good methodology in my mind.

        For example – last week I had a pretty bas sore throat, it is now getting better. In the intervening time I have eaten and done a lot of things but I would not say any one of the cured me. I’m sure if you get 100 ppl with sore throats and give them a beer then 99+ of them would feel better 2 weeks later.
        Would that convince you that beer was a miracle cure?
        Has anything more rigorous been done with MMS?

        As for MMS being a natural salt – that is irrelevant. So are salts of mercury, cyanide salts, arsenic salts, lead salts, cadmium salts and so on. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t want to drink solutions of any them.

        “Knowledge is neither defined, nor bound, by titles, nor is it expanded by maintaining a closed mind.” – There are some things we agree on!

      5. I don’t think we’ll disagree over testing methods. What’s important are results. You would ignore results simply because the testing methods don’t fit the box you think they should fit into. There are many ways to test, but few results that are acceptable. You refuse to acknowledge results as credible, then decry the lack of “testing.” I’ve seen and heard of wonderful results by credible people. If they show up positive there, then they’ll also show up positive in clinical testing. That’s why there’s no interest in doing that.

        You cannot live without certain salts, and if ENOUGH of certain salts aren’t in the body, it cannot heal.

        Sodium chlorite is indeed a salt that produces beneficial results. That’s how you determine benefit.

      6. migual

        Complete tosh. As I have already stated CLO2 is available from all outdoors shops for purifiying water, notice how the lable does not say for dissinfecting water. You have two bottle the same as with mms and it mixes same and stands for the same period of time. In effect as it is mixed with water as in the mms protocols you are ingesting the same thing. The brand it is sold under is life systems so you can set your grand jury on them.

        Also a patented brand of CLO2 is used in the retar-dex range of mouthwash, toothpaste and mouth spray again so you can write to them with your opinions.

        CLO2 is used in the wood pulp industry amongst others and therefore by definition is an industrial bleach. Taking a glass of undilluted CLO2 as you seem to imply is the normal course for those taking it, would be a bad ideaand dangerous – yet no where is it stated to ingest anymore than 1-6 drops (I believe the new protocol is).

        What I don’t understand is why you seem to think that I cannot decide for myself what is best for me and my family.

      7. migual

        Also salt is essential to health yet take to much and it can be very dangerous and even kill. Same with iodine yet by your own admissions and without any ill effects or evidence against you demonise.

        I’m not sure weather or not you people are genuine or not, quite possibly so though you must understand my grandfather fought so that I can speak freely whist being free and I have no intention of a return to 1939 for my children.

      8. Oh dear, I believe that’s what’s technically known as a “Godwin fail”.

  10. Lori

    The trouble with MDs trumpeting forth their opinions as if they were the voice of God, is that we stopped trusting them when they became dealers for the Pharmaceutical Industry. Since they’re the third-ranked cause of death in the U.S., that doesn’t help either. Of course, some doctors really are healers; but not all, unfortunately.

    1. They can’t fathom that there is another way of looking at the problem that may actually work. Imagine how many times he’s seen his method fail, and it’s the only one he can use and continue to practice (and make a living). That may be a reason why doctors represent a disproportionate percentage of alcoholics as well.

      1. Cardiac

        @Phael
        Whatt???? are you joking? I am quite young, only 19, so maybe I am too naive… but you sir. are spout some serious bull. And yes. This is a condescending tone. (btw props for detecting a condescending tone in TEXT) I am a molecular biology major, with hopes of becoming a Trauma Surgeon, I have several friends who are doctors, and I have my EMT, and have worked both on the truck and in the hospital. So if you wanna bring in some bullshit like Doctor=Alcoholics, then I say NAY. I say paranoid fools puttering around on their computers all day playing devils advocate to feel fulfilled are the problem here. Go read a book by someone who went to college. Or even better, find a hospital with a shadow program, follow a nurse around all day. Watch her drink and screw over the sick and injured for yourself. ORR you could see how hard it is taking care of the coughing, wehezing, mucusy, bleeding, and broken masses for 14 hours at a time. I choose to do this work because I want to help people. While it is true that the system is not the best one, and that same system can corrupt. Its also true that people go to the doctor when they are hurt or sick, and they come out feeling better. My life was saved by modern medicine. I will gladly support the machine.
        Sincerely,
        A.V.

      2. This yahoo (with all due respect to the search engine company) is going to make some patient very happy. They have them by 19, and their intelligence has already atrophied from lack of use.

        No one is trying to do away with “the machine,” young man. The machine needs an overhaul. Since you acknowledge that it’s not the best one, then why not the best?

      3. Paul Morgan

        In response to your reply to Cardiac, I think you should be ashamed – ashamed of your attitude, ashamed of your behaviour and ashamed at your ignorance.
        You exhibit extreme disrespect to doctors, nurses, scientists, and indeed anyone else associated with the provision of healthcare. Is your position borne out of a lack of knowledge (i.e. ignorance) or are you in some sort of delusional state whereby all healthcare workers are part of some sort of “Big Pharma” conspiracy?
        Shame on you.
        Apologise.

      4. You’re funny Paul. 🙂

        I’m glad that I don’t have to live with your opinions of me.

        Best wishes,

        Adam…

    2. Simon

      @Lori

      When you say “we” you actually mean a tiny group of closed minded gullible fools, who believe in some mythical grand conspiracy theory. Let’s just get this straight – forget for a second the crazy mantra that “big pharma” is apparently responsible for all of society’s ills. Do you really believe this stuff (nothing but raw chlorine dioxide) can magically cure everything? Go on, show me how naive and gullible you actually are!

      1. Kimberlee

        Simon,

        I have a reason to question the medical ‘industry’. A few years ago I was experiencing insane allergies that came out of ‘no-where’. I went to my medical doctor whom I really love. Unfortunately, she had two options to offer me, a pill or a knife. Neither resonated, but after 5 rounds of antibiotics, three intense episodes of three-day debilitating migraines, missed work, loss of finances due to missed work, cost of medical care and many tears and hours of pain, my eyes were open to alternative medicine. I had a customer offer me an option and I was so desperate, I looked into it. It turns out, this not only went directly to the source of the problem, it cured it. I no longer require drugs to treat the symptoms of the cause and no longer wear band-aides.

        If you would like to know more about what has prompted us to share what looks like a ‘conspiracy minded’ individual, just ask. We can share our journey and reasons for feeling the way we do without name calling. We can all learrn from one another when our minds are open and willing to hear all perspectives objectively.

      2. Simon,

        How intelligent do you think you sound with your comments? I know… you actually think you sound intelligent by suggesting that someone else is “gullible.”

        This has been an open forum for three years, because we could rely on people showing respect to each other. I’m happy to turn this into a moderated forum if necessary because this is no longer acceptable.

        My apologies Lori, and to everyone who has endured this new level of negative attention.

        It will pass.

      3. Lori

        Dear Simon,

        Go ahead and believe that everyone who doesn’t think like you is a “conspiracy theorist.’ Go ahead and believe whatever any authority figure tells you to think. I don’t care.

        Have fun!

      4. Simon

        Lori,
        It’s pointless trying to reason with you. Every single time anyone makes a point, the “big pharma” conspiracy is thrown back at them.

        I’m merely asking you to set that aside for a second, for argument’s sake. Even if it were true that there was a massive conspiracy at work (which it isn’t), it still wouldn’t transform the efficacy of each quack, new age remedy out there.
        This stuff isn’t some new antibiotic, or newly engineered compound. It’s just raw bleach being peddled.

      5. migual

        Firstly @ Cardiac not true not everyone who goes to the doctors comes out well. @ age 5 (back in 1984 funny enough) the ambulance and hospital team saved my life, then later for a fracture and an awkward fish bone – I think this side of the service is absolutly essential. However after visiting my local GP several times I moved to a new dr’s only to become dissolussioned after 2 visits for a serious illness. Needless to say I helped myself back to health and will not be returninging.

        @Lori this little group you take about is getting bigger all the time. Local GP’s in the UK have different motivations to the emergancy and hospital staff namely appointment fee’s and perscription commission. I realise that the medical establishment has grown to such a size job sercurity and even tax come into the sum however why do dr’s not give any information and recomendations on diet and natural remidies considering this is the birth of the pharmacutical industry?

        And conspiracy maybe certainly not theory. I’d say its more the few people behind big pharma, monsanto, exxo and the several wealthy banking families – the who lot interwined though money and people but then thats something else altogether

  11. Gilgamesh

    I m very sure of one thing, that I will never give one more cent for cancer research, as more and more people think now, that a phony scientific community doing phony research, and cancer researhc is all a scam. And they will never have a cancer cure, because the cancer society will have to dismantle it self as soon as there is a cure.
    And In my opinion the public dont trust, and dont care what the FDA, and these experts, and these scientists say about homeopathy, acupuncture, MMS
    herbs, or chiropractic etc. These phony talks, and arguments by the FDA and some of these people who think they are real scientists, will not stop the people from using MMS, that really cures not just cancer.but other diseases and saves lives.
    These ideas, that MMS is a poisonous bleach, and is not effective, to me, and for people who use MMS, is sound like ideas or something from the dark ages.

    1. Sorry, but you really are one of the most ignorant people I have every had the misfortune to come across. Actually, you know what? I’m not sorry. Not at all. More disgusted.
      Read Noodlemaz’s post below.

      1. Kimberlee

        Dear Rhys,

        How would you feel if your comment “you really are one of the most ignorant people I have every had the misfortune to come across” was directed to you?

        Does this encourage an opportunity to understand one another on equal/balanced/respectful grounds?

      2. migual

        Are you actually the little state indoctrinated child who called the fsa all by himself or just some agent provocator?

    2. Paul Morgan

      The posts made by Gilgamesh and Kimberlee are truly offensive. Let’s be clear about MMS. There is no published scientific data to show it to be either safe or effective as a therapy when used as directed. It is an industrial bleach, widely used in industry as a bleach!
      http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chlorine-dioxide.htm
      It is a biological toxin:-
      http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0496.htm
      http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC35408#Symptoms

      It is truly depressing to see the level of stupidity and ignorance of those who simply will not believe clear-cut evidence. Fortunately, such people are a minority, albeit a vocal one. They will not go unchallenged.
      So, the challenge to the pro-MMS advocates is to provide us with the evidence to show that MMS is a safe and effective therapy. Provide real, meaningful, credible scientific evidence, as I and others have asked for repeatedly here and elsewhere on the Internet.
      I, for one, will not be holding my breath.

      1. It is as though you think by saying the word “bleach” over and over, you’re going to change something. Chlorine dioxide is all the things that you have suggested. When it is used, what are called pathogens are reduced. If you are going to use the bleach argument, AND TAKE SUCH OFFENSE AT IT, then you (or your peers) will have to explain the profound EXTENT that the public is being exposed to an INFERIOR “BLEACH,” which is chlorine, and what impact this practice is having on the death and disease numbers that you pointed out before.

        Please note that the public IS being exposed to that bleach, which is known to produce new chemical toxicity.

        Why no outrage over that? Why no sensitivity that this long accepted practice, which may appear inconsequential, may in fact be part of the problem when the exposure is constant and long-term?

    3. Machupiku

      This is so offensive. I have a friend who would be dead if it were not for cancer research and those that donate. Yes it is not a completely curable disease yet but great improvements have been seen.

      1. migual

        What great improvements exactly?

    4. miltcentral

      Utter rubbish,

      Firstly cancer is not one disease but an umbrella term for a whole range of conditions. THat’s why one should be suspicious of any ‘cancer cures’ – it shows a real misunderstanding of medicine.
      Secondly let’s look at one of many examples of what cancer research has done:
      Childhood Acute Lymphoblastic Leukaemia: Pre: 1970 zero survival rate. 2010: 80% survival rate (with close to 70% no relapse)
      With an incidence of over 200,000 cases each year, that’s well over 100,000 children’s lives saved a year. Let’s divide it by a factor of 300 just to allow for any level of spurious argument you care to make. and that’s a child’s life a day that you ‘Gilgamesh’ couldn’t care less about. As for MMS- only anecdotal evidence of benefit and scientific evidence of harm. Congratulations on the extent of your delusions, rather impressive.

      1. Why is no one taking exception to what CAUSES 200,000 cases of leukemia in children EACH YEAR? Everyone’s nose is to the grindstone looking at how to react, and no official understanding or effective changes is being offered that addresses the causes. You NEED cancer in order to study it. You don’t study HEALTHY people, or healthy ENVIRONMENTS to see how they differ from ones that are disease infested. You have the nerve to call someone else deluded.

        You don’t have to agree with the point of view being promoted here, but the results that you so proudly trumpet still reflect a sorry state of affairs. While you’re patting yourselves on the back, 10’s of thousands of children are dying each year, and ALL 200,000+ will have had their lives and outlook of the future changed by the brush with catastrophic illness. What if a year went by and NO children came up with CAL leukemia (or any kind of cancer)? Would you rejoice? Do you even believe it’s possible? Or would you have to wait for a peer reviewed study to be done before you’d accept that the solution was authentic?

    5. migual

      Could not agree more. I stopped giving to any “main stream” charity a while back for just those reasons. JUst look at the so called scientist who was leading the pro man made climate change research. People are waking up and a certain elitist few don’t like that one bit.

    6. I won’t say it is all a scam. But the fact that so many medication are called back from the shelf’s shows that the research was either not completed or no good in the first place, and that shows us how reliable reseach is, even peer proved ect… 🙂

  12. Mike

    Sometimes I think Voltaire was just plain wrong. Good luck to the bleach swallowers. More power to rhys’s elbow.

  13. Paul Morgan

    It must be pretty clear to anyone with a single shred of common sense and rational thinking that MMS, whether you call it “Miracle Mineral Solution”, “Master Mineral Solution” or anything else for that matter, is a complete scam. The major difficulty on this sort of forum is sorting out those who are deluded, from those who are gullible, from those who are an active part of the scam. The deluded I hold no hope for – all that can be done is to ridicule them, so that others can see why they are being ridiculed. The active scammers, charlatans, snake oil salesmen (call them what you will) – they will be pursued through all legal channels until put out of business (and hopefully imprisoned for the misery they wreak). It is the gullible that we must protect from the deluded and the charlatans by providing them with the means to seek the evidence to determine the truth for themselves.
    Humble decides to change the name from “Miracle…” to “Master…” to make it sound less like snake oil. HMM! Whatever you call it, doesn’t change what it is. We are talking here about mixing sodium chlorite with citric acid. This produces chlorine dioxide, an industrial bleach hazardous to human health.I have repeatedly asked MMS advocates for real, credible, scientific evidence of its safety and efficacy – to date none has been forthcoming. All that is ever offered up are unverifiable anecdotes, YouTube videos that either have nothing to do with MMS or are complete nonsense (e.g. the Andreas Kalcker video), or other attempts to detract or divert from the debate.
    Kimberlee – you disgust me. Your statements are without foundation and you only show yourself here to be deluded. As for MMS getting the recognition it deserves, it’s coming, but not in the way you wish. Bans on its use are spreading across the world as the public get educated on the nature of this scam.
    Arrow Durfee – you can sign up for a Wikipedia account and edit for yourself. Of course, it is likely that others will re-edit any submissions that are incorrect. Having said that, your comment on “ozone therapy” hardly makes you a reliable source of scientific evidence. I might as well ask the local hobo. As for you comments on Crohn’s disease, same goes.
    Other comments here also raise questions about people’s mindsets – cancers are not caused by fungal infection. There is zero evidence for this.

    When a “miracle” cure is claimed, this on its own should make you ask questions. When it also claims to cure diseases with no common causation, that should make you question it further. MMS “advocates” claim success in treating caused by viruses, bacteria, fungi, parasites, for different types of cancer, for autism, eczema and baldness. One one website it was even claimed that MMS helped a flat-chested woman to grow breasts!
    So,tell me, honestly, does any of this sound credible to you?

    1. Dr. Morgan,

      You have an opinion and you’re entitled to it. Why do you feel the need to “weigh in” with arrogant, insulting, self-righteous indignation? Have you have asked for scientific evidence about MMS and no one has delivered to you? You can produce it on your own, IF you were so inclined. It’s not important whether it is peer reviewed yet. It’s important that YOU know THIS APPLICATION works or doesn’t work. That’s all anyone who presently supports MMS’ use has done. They didn’t wait for someone else to do it for them and tell them how to think about it.

      Are you willing to risk knowing that it actually works and face the scorn from your you’ve demonstrated on a complete stranger here today?

      It doesn’t take much to figure out whether MMS is helpful or harmful. But it can’t be done if a person has a closed mind.

      Your entire argument is about “lack of evidence.” There MUST be evidence, sir, just as there is evidence that cancer cells proliferate in oxygen depleted, i.e., dead or dying, environments. Whether you see it, agree with it or not is irrelevant. Few are willing to take an honest look at the ongoing, cumulative effects of chemical substitution and supplementation that characterize modern life today, and consider that they just MIGHT play a role in what become chronic diseases, including the formation of growths that become tumors. As oxygen depletion becomes chronic, a rise in anaerobic microorganisms becomes necessary in order to sustain life.

      The world doesn’t revolve around your opinions (nor mine). Nothing anyone has said to you or about you has warranted this kind of childish outburst. And you think that your manner is going to persuade people of the error of their thinking?

      Why do you care if a person chooses to use MMS? What does such a decision do for YOU?

      I suggest that the benefits will eventually become incontrovertible to too many people. Just my opinion, but it’s also happening, and you’re helping make it happen by having nothing intelligent to say in support of the status quo. The status quo is changing, MUST change. Perhaps you’d disagree there too, but it doesn’t matter. It’s my opinion.

      The improvements in health that people have REPORTED after using MMS are not miracles. Your vitriolic tone isn’t welcome here. Respect is a two-way street. I don’t agree with your take on things, and you don’t agree with mine, but you will act as though you’re speaking to another human being in this forum, or we can do without you.

      1. Mark

        Ahh yes, that old nugget, Criticism = insults and arrogance.

        Why do people care about other people choosing to take MMS?

        Because many people don’t like to see vulnerable people taken advantage of. Any product which offers false hope at a price is morally objectionable. But in the case of MMS the product is not only ineffective, it’s potentially harmful. Any sane person who knows this would want to stop its use.

      2. Paul Morgan

        Dear Phaelosopher,
        You know nothing about medicine, pharmacology, cancer cell biology, or indeed anything else you talk about. You certainly demonstrate zero knowledge of clinical trials methodology and even less about the meaning of real, verifiable scientific evidence. Where is the evidence in favour of MMS? It’s non-existent. Who’s responsibility is it to do the research to provide the evidence? The pro-MMS lobby, in particular Jim Humble himself. This is a man who cannot even get basic chemistry right and whose knowledge of medicine, human physiology and pharmacology is on a par with yours – in an examination situation, you would both be graded as “unclassified”.
        You say that “there MUST be evidence, sir” – if so, please share it with myself and others. Unverifiable anecdotes are not evidence, and I am yet to hear a pro-MMS statement that is anything other than unverifiable anecdote.
        The burden of proof for the introduction of a new therapeutic agent lies with the proposer. The following link may help you and others on this forum understand how clinical trials work and how it is necessary to provide credible, verifiable evidence to support claims made. Just because something “works” in a test-tube, doesn’t mean it will work inside the human body or is safe to administer.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_trial

        As to my whether my mind is open or closed, you clearly show ignorance about skepticism, so once again I will help you out:-
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skepticism
        Thus, my mind is open to persuasion, but in order to persuade myself and others that MMS is safe and effective, there must be evidence produced by the MMS advocates. Real, credible, verifiable scientific evidence. Unverifiable anecdotes simply don’t cut it with the scientific community. You say “The improvements in health that people have REPORTED using MMS are not miracles”. Good. At least we can agree on something. I don’t believe in miracles. These reports are unverifiable anecdotes. Given the known actions of chlorine dioxide on human cells, it beggars belief to think that there can be any benefits, so at best we are looking at a placebo effect. At worst, the reports are from people who are either deluded or liars (and therefore part of this sickening scam).
        As for my tone of vitriol and indignation, it is because I cannot stand quacks, charlatans and scam artists taking advantage of sick, vulnerable and desperate people offering in reality nothing but false hope and misery, usually at a significant financial, emotional and health cost.

      3. I don’t have any pithy retorts. You’ve rehashed everything your ideological cohorts have said. Nothing new, just a HOPE that you’re right about this. No courage to explore on your own, ask genuine questions, hold respectful dialogues, form your own opinion, and KNOW for yourself, whether anyone else agrees or not.

        That’s what keeps things moving at a snail’s pace, and all that pent up anger looking for somewhere to direct it. This ain’t the place.

        You’ve said your piece. We know where you stand.

        I’ve got nothing else to add.

        Be well.

        Adam…

      4. Phaelosopher, I’d love to have a respectful dialogue, and I’m pretty sure that Paul would too. However, you don’t seem to have grasped the way proper grown-up scientists have respectful dialogues.

        They do it by publishing their findings in peer-reviewed journals, so that they can be verified. Dialogue based on unverifiable anecdotes is, to a proper scientist, a non-starter. You might as well expect to have a respectful dialogue about alien life forms based on stories from crazy people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and then brought back (although perhaps you believe them, too?)

        Publish your data, and then we’ll have a dialogue. If you don’t, then I, Paul, and the entire rest of the scientific community will just assume that you are making everything up.

      5. If you want to have a respectful dialogue, then all you have to do is be that way. Since you seem to think I haven’t yet grasped how to do it, it would seem you would lead by example, which hasn’t happened.

        We have both acknowledged that the kind of information that you are seeking, in the form that you want it, does not exist. The reasons are not important. If we were only going to base our future efforts on assumptions already made, nothing new would happen. No new directions would be taken. What is the essence of scientific research other than the pursuit of new pathways? Since the personal use of chlorine dioxide is new, but the human ingestion of “bleach” is not, then how is it so unreasonable for one to explore the use of a chemical that does NOT cause new harmful chemistry, and has been proven highly effective at inactivating pathogens?

        Keep in mind that many antibacterial drugs have become ineffective, yet they continue to be administered. Given how it works, chlorine dioxide is mutation proof as an antiviral or antibacterial agent. If this were a simple theory, and a group of researchers truly wanted to prove it out, they would. People who are sick want to get well. They determine what they need to know in order to make a choice. Generally, if they succeed at getting well, they have reached their objective. They get on with their life. The fact that so many people have gotten on with their life after taking MMS is the only reason we’re having this discussion. It is meaningful whether the “data” is available in the form you want, or not.

        I suspect that, one day, it will be. Yet, it remains meaningless to a person who has been put out to pasture and told to get their affairs in order because medicine can’t do anything more for them. How many people are in that position right now, after years of chemical exposure and malnourishment that led to chronic disease, then months or years of further chemical treatment that have taken them to deaths door? MMS is not the only way to help restore health. There are many more “MMS’s” out there. However, its use would improve the effectiveness of today’s health care provider in a number of situations where what amounts to little more than symptom management currently prevails.

      6. “What is the essence of scientific research other than the pursuit of new pathways? ”

        You’re absolutely right about that, but you don’t take the next step, which is to pursue the new pathways in a scientific manner.

        Many scientific discoveries start out as seemingly crazy ideas, but then they are backed up by proper research which shows that they were not so crazy after all. That research is lacking for MMS.

        On the other hand, many crazy ideas also start out as seemingly crazy ideas. My guess is that MMS comes into the latter category.

  14. Hi everyone,

    I’m a friend of Rhys’ and whilst I normally don’t respond to these threads because both sides of the argument can become too emotionally involved in their ‘truth’ to listen to the other side I felt I had to in this case. I don’t know much about the chemistry behind MMS but I do know that Rhys and his friends are not trying to deny Mr. Abraham or Mr. Humble their faith in something that they believe to be a good thing. I also do know that all of my friends that have studied medicine and chemistry, many beyond the PhD level, know that the chemical solution that has been described on this and other websites, has been analysed and found to match the exact chemical make-up and properties of industrial cleaning agents which are known to cause chemical burning to the oesophagus, stomach, small and large intestine, cirrhosis of the liver and catastrophic renal failure.

    But that is not what prompted me to respond. What I do know about is cancer, specifically because not only have I been treated for a malignant tumour but I lost one of my sisters to cancer in 2004. She smoked and she drank too much, just as I did and so many others in the UK do and I am under no illusion as to the cause of both of our troubles and I can assure you it had nothing to do with any type of mycelia, be it slime moulds or fungus.

    What I also know is how desperately my mother tried to find something to help Martina as she became more ill and we were told her death from cancer was unavoidable. My mother was powerless to do the one thing she felt was her duty and that was to protect her and when the doctors told her they could do no more, of course she felt they were giving up too soon. From garlic laden soups to homoeopathic sugar pills to crystals to reiki; she tried everything and I am sure if she had known about MMS, that would also have been smuggled in. We are not calling anyone stupid, or foolish or heartless or callous. I genuinely believe that Mr. Abraham and Humble want to help. This isn’t a get rich quick scam as far as I can tell but I do know it can’t work.

    If you want to take back control of the terrible situation you find yourselves in, try and find out as much as you can about your, or your partners’ or your family members illness as there are so many sources of information at your disposal but please; don’t look for the easy way out as it very rarely ends up being true and it always comes with a heavy cost.

    Kind regards

    James

  15. Gilgamesh

    Cyber Czar.
    The FDA closed one MMS distributor in Florida, but he is back selling MMS, and now there will be even more MMS distributors.
    But I agree with you, even if they stop the sale of MMS, as long as MMS is a cure for cancer, and hundreds of other illnesses, people will be using it everywhere. The FDA can not stop it. And all the experts, and the followers of Rys Morgan will be just making a fool of themselves.
    And these same experts also try to tell people, that organic foods are no good, and dangerous for us, organic tomatoes are poisonous, and we should eat only genetically modified foods and aspartame, and canola oil, GM salmon, etc. They may shove this down on people’s throats in some places, but not here in the USA.

    1. Brian

      The problem is that “MMS” isn’t a cure for anything except microbes on hard surfaces. It’s toxic if ingested by humans and HAS killed- see http://www.theage.com.au/national/miracle-elixir-linked-to-death-illness-20100821-13a2z.html

      Upside is that the average IQ of the human race will dramatically improve if stupid people keep drinking it. You should start with about 10 gallons, Gilgamesh.

    2. Rawr rawr, fight the powah!
      Or something like that…

    3. TV

      Big Pharma is paying people to submit press releases against mms. They are posting fear and scare warning against MMS.
      Well, how about a counter attack?

      Chemo is just a chemical war mustard gas that is stock piled and the army cannot use it any more. This gas is deadly and when injected into either sick – cancer stricken people or health people the results are usually deadly with in 5 years.

      MMS has cured cancer using the new protocol with in weeks and no one dies. HUM?

      Try the new protocol of MMS — also called water purification drops here: http://reikiranch.net

      Chemo VS. MMS What do you think?

      1. Shiroboshi

        Damn! Where are my cheques, then? I must be doing something wrong….
        Well either that or someone is once again making stuff up. I wonder what is more probable…

      2. Well, Occam’s Razor and all that…
        Do you think the Dunning-Kruger effect applies here, Shiro?

      3. Shiroboshi

        It certainly explains a few things, including my missing cheques…

  16. Cyber Czar

    Adam,

    Don’t lie you know you meant harmless just admit it. 🙂 As much as the FDA wants to control how MMS is used by the masses they won’t be able to stop its use in the alternative field of medacine. Even if they do do their rounds to all the big vendors that distribute it to smaller companies saying its only for so and so use… that won’t stop it from going to the public.

    Even if the smaller companies or individuals can no longer obtain sodium chlorite for making MMS there are always other ways of making sodium chlorite from electrifying salt. So that would mean if they really wanted to stop MMS from being made in home that they would have to take away salt and electricity as well. Something that isn’t likely to ever happen in anyones lifetime. So we can sit back and laugh at all of this nonsense that MMS will be banned or taken off the market by stopping the distributors from selling them to smaller businesses or individuals.

    FDA can’t stop it and believe me as long as long as salt and electricity is around there ain’t no stopping sodium chlorite from being produced at home whether the FDA likes it or not. The harder they try to suppress the materials the harder it gets to spread the wrong information and the more resources and money they lose out on. The people will always win and the government regulators will always lose. Give up while they can cause its a battle that they will never win. Period!

    1. Stephen

      Sure, you can still make dangerous stuff in your bath tub and drink it. It remains dangerous.

      MMS has not been banned by the FDA because big government wants spoil your fun.

  17. Kimberlee

    Hi Adam,

    I don’t mean the people who are selling it, I mean a doctor who is neutral and can do before and after tests on patients who have disease and get cured from it. Surely this can be done. It would bring the conclusive evidence to the forefront and get out from under the malice caused by the gov agencies who choose to keep us sick by perpetuating the poison food and drugs they support.

    1. Hi Kimberee,

      There are many doctors now using MMS, yet they do it with some trepidation. I have spoken with one, who has some amazing cases to share, but he has to be ready and comfortable in the sharing. I am aware of others, and it will come out eventually, but it won’t have much influence on the likes of our latest fans. A light will have to come on within each of them. There is plenty of evidence of chlorine dioxide’s efficacy. I believe that there is a much larger issue that the agencies don’t want the public to notice, but it can’t keep the diversion program going much longer.

      Regards,

      Adam…

    2. Kimberlee, I don’t think any neutral doctors would be irresponsible enough to even consider giving bleach to patients unless they had seen some evidence that it might be helpful. It is up to those selling it to provide such evidence. They are unwilling to do that to the standards of proof required by the scientific community (ie publication in peer-reviewed journals).

      If they were to do so, and if they were right about the claims they are making, they would convince a great many mainstream scientists and doctors (including myself) that MMS has benefits.

      However, they have shown absolutely no willingness to do so. Draw your own conclusions.

      1. Phaelosopher, you say there are many doctors now using MMS. Can you name one? I mean a proper, medically quaified, licensed doctor?

      2. Yes I can. But it’s not my place to “out” a doctor who has not chosen to speak up on his or her own. Any person willing to use their own intelligence can determine whether MMS/chlorine dioxide is safe. Also, given the politics of being a doctor these days, their medical training is concentrated primarily on pharmacology. You could say that is their world. Anything that is not pharmaceutical based is treated lightly, or with suspicion. They are judged as “qualified” both by their grasp of chemistry from a pharmacological perspective, as well as their allegiance. This is why “symptom change” has become the basis of many drugs approval instead of healing, since drugs that further stress, or obstruct cellular and metabolic function inside the body, don’t heal.

        Thank you for your question.

      3. So, you say that there are doctors using it, but you’re not willing to name one.

        Sorry, but I don’t actually believe that such doctors exist.

        Much like your claims of all the so-called evidence that MMS works: you say it exists, but you won’t publish any of it.

        Not very convincing.

      4. Let’s agree on THIS… your being convinced that MMS works isn’t important to me.

      5. Yes, we can certainly agree on that.

  18. Hello there,
    I’m the kid that the Beeb mentioned.
    Seems that my campaigning to get MMS sellers shut down is working pretty well!
    Also seems to be getting a load of MMS peddlers annoyed.
    – Rhys

    1. Kimberlee

      What is your beef with MMS Rhys?

      1. That it’s proclaiming to be a miracle cure for absolutely everything except for broken bones. That it has absolutely zero evidence to back up that extraordinary claim. That gullible and vulnerable people are being taken advantage of and told to drink industrial bleach. That they’re given false hope.
        Take your pick.

      2. Kimberlee

        Rhys,

        You say there is absolutely no evidence, yet there are many many people who claim to have received benefits and/or been cured from diseases by using mms. If there were no benefits, why would so many people be making these claims? Have you looked into any of these claims and asked them personally? The reason why I bought mms was because I had discovered I had candida and a friend of mine recommended mms. Once I get my blood re-checked and the candida is gone, I can then make a claim myself. The lady that checked my blood does blood work for cancer patients. Did you know that every single person that had cancer had candida in their blood? There is a book she recommended called Cancer is a Fungus. There are so many common foods (peanuts, soy, mushrooms, etc) that can cause candida. It makes you wonder why cancer is so prevelent. Even though there is so much so-called research to cure it….it is still not cured. Another interesting fact, why would the medical community pass laws that only allow chemotherapy as treatment? Is it possible that they want you to be sick and not cured? There is a great video of a 15 year pharma rep sharing the dirty details of that business. They are not in it to heal, or they would put themselves out of business. They own the medical industry and the doctors are high paid drug pushers.

        Then you look at the agencies who are now attacking mms and you wonder why. Is it a threat to big pharma, the system they support with great furvor? Their track record is not a good one, they advocate drugs that have caused more harm than good, and have killed! This is just one example…Fen-phen…check out this little note on Wiki in the History section….

        the FDA’s medical officer, Leo Lutwak, insisted upon a black box warning of pulmonary hypertension risks. After Lutwak refused to approve the drug, FDA management had someone else sign it and approved the drug with no black box warning for marketing in 1996.

        The drug supporters also advocate putting things in our water and toothpaste (fluoride), our food (aluminum), mercury in our mouths, genetically modifiy our food, attempt to pass legistlature that threatens the local organic farmer from continuing to do business and have access to healthy real food. Then you have the chemicals from above which they spray in the name of geoengineering for the potential global warming. If the feds attack something, I question the threat it has on ‘their’ system. Whatever they support, I question. Even the doctors are now discovering the drugs they advocate are indeed harmful. My mom’s doc recently told her to stay away from the prescriptions they used to push after finding adverse affects.

        Watch out for the wolf in sheeps clothing.

      3. Kimberlee.

        Let me explain to you first that there are fundamental differences in fungal cells vs. mammalian cells; that is, human cells vs. a yeast like candida.
        There are many visible differences (you don’t even need that high-powered a microscope), not to mention the completely different genomes; we can easily extract DNA from tumours and test the genes; I do it pretty much every week at work.

        The reason no one gives credence to this fungal hypothesis (and I’m shocked your friend does, given her job. If I were her employer and I found out about that, I’d question her fitness for the job. If she tests blood samples she should at LEAST be microscopy trained, with cell biology if not some genetics as well) is because it is demonstrably rubbish.

        We all have a lot of microbial flora in our bodies, but that does not mean that the correlation implies causation; that a lot of people with a disease sharing some common factor means that factor is the cause. Especially when you can get rid of that factor and the disease still occurs.

        Cancer is prevalent because it is a disease of ageing, of living. Our DNA gets damaged every day by various things, plus some unlucky people inherit certain mutations from their parents that make them more susceptible to cancer in their lives.
        We discovered a lot of ‘cancer genes’ because of families with specific mutations in really important genes, causing them to get many, many cancers from a young age. These kinds of studies are called ‘linkage studies’ and familial genetic data have been so important since the discovery of DNA (remember still less than a century ago, so medicine has come on leaps and bounds since the 50s) in working out why we get a lot of diseases.

        We live longer now, so cancer is a very common ‘way to go’ – we all die of something. Our cells can only handle dividing a certain number of times; it’s actually a protection mechanism against cancer. But sometimes mutations mean that this protection is lost and cells keep dividing; that’s what cancer is. Cells growing too much. There are about 6 different things that cells need to do before they cause cancer and these are well-studied. See here: http://www.learnoutloud.com/Free-Audio-Video/Self-Development/Health-and-Fitness/How-Cancer-Begins/15509

        Now, to move on (I don’t know why I’m trying to explain to you what took me more than 3 years to learn about, and the scientific community decades to assemble the proof and evidence for, it’s fairly futile, but I hope that video helps).

        I am DISGUSTED by your accusation that no one wishes to cure cancer. That is horrifically offensive. You are talking about people, people like you who have loved ones, who no doubt no people with or who have died because of the disease.

        Tomorrow I am attending the funeral of a close friend of mine, whom I knew for 13 years, who died last week from brain cancer, before her 25th birthday.

        I work in cancer research, not on the particular kind of cancer she had, but I know people who do. I know some of the drugs they used to keep her alive for a year, I know the hospital she went to to have her first surgery, which was largely successful but unfortunately due to the rare and aggressive nature of her particular cancer, it was bound to recur; and the location – we cannot remove big chunks of the brain (unlike, say, the liver) to be sure we get all the tumour cells out, because the brain is obviously a far more vital and delicate organ.

        You understand nothing of this disease or the research that goes on, how hard people work every day to help find cures that PEOPLE LIKE YOU can also use one day, god forbid that you should need to.

        HOW DARE YOU accuse the medical profession as a whole; that’s research scientists and students like me, doctors, surgeons, nurses, caregivers, charity workers, EVERYONE – how dare you accuse us of not caring, of deliberately suppressing knowledge to keep our jobs.

        You know what?
        I hope someone finds a cure for EVERY disease, today. Right now. I’ll GLADLY go and find another job. I’d be so happy, ecstatic.
        I wish these jobs didn’t exist, I hate that people suffer and die and what else I hate is people like you who have the nerve to tell me that I don’t care and that the drug companies cover up all the miracle cures to keep the money coming in.

        It’s a pathetic, insulting conspiracy theory and I hope you are ashamed of thinking such a thing.

      4. Kimberlee

        Marianne,

        This is not a conspiracy theory. It’s called looking at patterns at a macro level and getting direct feedback from doctors who have fallen prey to supporting a system and industry that claims to protect, yet allows many harmful things to enter on the food and drug market which has caused great damage and even killed.

        If you would like to continue this conversation elsewhere, I would be more than happy to do so, no need to yell insults here.

      5. Kimberlee said:

        “Whatever they support, I question.”

        By “they”, you seem to mean “anyone who supports mainstream medicine and criticises alternative not-medicine”. And by “question”, you seem to mean “assume they’re only doing it because they’re evil”.

        The world you live in must be a scary place if you really think there’s such a massive infrastructure in place, with millions of people involved in a deliberate conspiracy to obscure effective cures, keep people ill, and somehow profit from this vast and horrible enterprise.

      6. Kimberlee

        James,

        I question what the federal food and drug admin advocates because of what I have observed and conversations I have had with doctors and others in the pharma industry.

        My world is not scary, quite the opposite. When one is informed about toxins in their environment, one can make conscious empowered choices to be healthy and disease free.

      7. You can contact me on Twitter if you wish, Kimberlee (@noodlemaz).
        But if you continue down this ignorant, insulting path, I’m afraid I’d have little more to say.

      8. Kimberlee

        Thanks for the option to continue the conversation Marianne. I really don’t understand why you feel the need to continue insulting me though.

      9. Where exactly did I insult you?
        Ignorant is not an insult if you genuinely don’t know about something. I’m ignorant of the physics of air travel, combustion engines, windsurfing, making soufflés. You are ignorant of cancer biology; as many, many people are, but on top of that you insult all of us who are not by spreading these ridiculous ‘theories’ and implying that we’d rather keep our jobs than see people cured of horrible diseases.

        Why don’t you see how offensive that is??

        Oh, and have a read of this http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Farchiviostorico.corriere.it%2F2006%2Fmaggio%2F21%2FMedico_condannato_omicidio_colposo_co_10_060521029.shtml&act=url

        To see what happened to the doctor who thought all cancer was yeast. He’s been prosecuted and struck off for causing people to die.

        It’s a great shame that people have to die before the world is shown what damage these crazy ideas can have. Wake up, Kimberlee, please, before your spreading of misinformation causes any more harm.

      10. Kimberlee

        You insulted me by not even giving us the opportunity to have a conversation without a heated condescending tone.

      11. Mark

        Kimberlee

        You don’t seem to grasp just how offensive your post is. You are essentially accusing everyone who works in the medical profession, from doctors through medical researcher of being selfish, money driven monsters, who care more about their own pay cheque than helping to rid the world of disease and suffering.
        Firstly, this suggestion is just plain wrong, the vast majority of doctors and research scientists are not astonishingly well paid and work very long hours. And if they didn’t want to cure disease, why do they? Why does life expectancy continue to increase, why do survival rates of all disease continue to increase?
        secondly it’s offensive. To watch conspiracy nuts constantly making baseless accusations of corruption and greed at them is something I find rather sickening.
        Frankly I think you need to take a good, hard look at the type of person you are when you go around saying such sweeping and unpleasant statements about huge numbers of people.

        Being one of these people you’ve insulted, I think Marianne has been very restrained.

      12. Dear Mark,

        There is a difference between offense intended, and offense taken. I don’t need to speak for Kimberlee, but there is a difference in opinion about what is baseless and what is not. Kimberlee’s opinion is not baseless, any more than yours is. There was no sarcasm or condescension in Kimberlee’s tone or words, unlike that from Marianne, Mike, John, KateKatv, and Rhys. Getting upset isn’t going to convince anyone of anything, other than perhaps the immaturity of the combatant. No one sought you or your hangouts out to attack your way of thinking or ridicule your beliefs. But you appear to be one of several that have dropped by here lately. You don’t have to agree with anything said here, but a person giving his or her opinion here can expect it to be heard with an open mind, and be responded to with some intelligence.

        You may not think my point of view is intelligent, but that gives you no right to be offensive. Marianne has shown disrespect in “affectionately” referring to me as “Failosopher” on her forum. So be it. Ultimately, the respect must come from within one’s self. I could take “offense,” but how would that benefit me?

        I respect that you have reasons to support your current beliefs that seem valid to you. I am not here to talk you out of them. In fact, no one is here to do that. Yet, you and your cronies seem to have a great problem with ours. You can’t do anything about that, and insults and childish outbursts from episodes of thin skinitis will backfire.

        Best wishes,

        Adam…

      13. Yes Phael, because cancer cells really just work on opinion, don’t they? And worldwide massive conspiracies just construct and deconstruct the second someone makes an opinion, don’t they, Phael. This is the only way I can see that Kimberlee’s post could have a base.

    2. So your the kid with crohn’s disease! My my. How you are shooting yourself in the foot an making some difficult karma for yourself.

      Someday, if you come to the day when you are laying on your death bed from crohns you may pick up a bottle of mms as a last ditch resort. I do hope it won’t be too late for you.

      You may delight in the closing of MMS distributors from your actions but that will not stop it. People want to heal and have the right to choose their medicine. No matter what misguidance you may press into the public arena MMS is here to stay.

      You should get to gether with my friend who had devastating crohns disease and now he is fully well from MMS. He has been working hard to educate people that they do not have to live with crohns nor die from crohns nor take the debiliating and toxic drugs…. they can be whole and healthy and free

      I really do hope you find a way to your healing because crohn’s is a bummer. I doubt you will ever find it through conventional drug therapy. Through their care you will be on one drug after another with no cure, right into your grave.

      But Hey, If you find a way give us a holler!

      1. Actually, none of the drugs I’m on are debilitating.
        Yes, they’re both immunosuppresants, but that is for a reason. The reason being that Crohn’s is autoimmune. I have an immune system that is overreacting to absolutely nothing in my bowel.
        The lack of your knowledge really shines through on this post. Good work!

      2. KateKatV

        Well Arrow, it certainly seems that Rhys’ symptoms are being well controlled by the drugs he is on – he certainly has the energy to run rings round the MMS charlatans!

    3. migual

      suppose it keeps you from watching x factor or playing video games.

      1. What’s wrong with x-factor and video games miguel. 😉
        Beats arguing with kids and bullys and relaxes, which is also good for our health1 🙂

  19. Sorry, obviously I meant “harmful”, not “harmless”.

  20. Bill

    Adam,
    Extremely well written. Charlotte Gerson from the Gerson Institute for Curing Cancer has often been quoted that “the body is very hard to kill, but the toxic build-up in our bodies is where the problem is.” Everyone is (or should be) sick and tired of old institutions that once had integrity that are now dangerous Goliath like perversions of their original intent. Modern ground breaking scientific breakthroughs sometimes disprove long standing truths, but since mega-business sits on these old truths they do not allow them to crumble – as they should. Instead they turn evil and they know it and they take their chances with our lives. If I paid my bills from a job at Monsanto, or was employed at a water treatment plant to measure and control the chemicals added to water, I would think twice about losing my job to genuine progress. I personally have argued with my cities water department about the new Fluoride policy. “It is law that communities with over 10,000 households get Fluoride treatment he said. ” He said “take it up with the state legislature.” There is no talking to these people. Toxic substances pay salaries and support entire communities. The cancer industry supports more people than it kills. The world is a crazy place. But it is good to know that some of us are figuring it out and saving lives. It is good to know there are hero’s in the world – once again.

  21. Kimberlee

    Wow, Wiki really slammed MMS.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Solution

    Can you find out who is the source of this slandering?

    Kimberlee

    1. Wikipedia is open source. You or I can create an account, go in and make changes/additions. Notice the “Discussion” tab at the top of the article. There has been some talk about it, I’m assuming among some of the annotators.

      A~

      1. Kimberlee

        Adam,

        Is there any way for us to get a doctor to step forward and do some real research and report back the findings?

        A friend of mine does blood work for cancer patients and says that every one of the patients she has tested has candida. Even though I do not have cancer, when she tested my blood, I had candida. When I asked around for a cure, I was led to MMS.

        She also referred me to a book Cancer is a fungus. http://www.cancerisafungus.com/

        I would love to see MMS get the recognition it deserves.

        Cheers,
        Kimberlee

      2. Kimberlee, you will find that the folks who sell MMS are very resistant to doing real research. I imagine that’s because they know perfectly well that it would show it to be harmless.

        It is, after all, industrial bleach.

      3. Sorry, obviously I meant “harmful”, not “harmless”.

      4. Wiki is controlled. Not to likely they will permit anything postitive about mms. I once wrote a detailed article on ozone therapy with references to sciene journals etc. Because it showed that ozone cures some very difficult disease and is widely used in European nations in clinics it was dumped and only negative propaganda remaind. Don’t count on wiki for anything unless somehow their minds and hearts get touched and open to truth

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